[j timms]

been a windowcleaner for 24 years .  21 years for a company and last three on my own.        my old boss has had wfs for seven years but still does 90 per cent of his domestic work traditionally, thats eight blokes working for him by ladder . i have my own round which i still do traditionally but thinking of getting wfs not because im a lazy git or a girl thingy but because i want to give my customers the choice. sick of the argument wfs or squeegee the fact is both have uses and if im honest i think comercially wfs wins and domestically traditional is better. what gets my goat is the fact ive cleaned windows for 24 years and some jumped up gits buy a wfs and think its the only and best way and that there experts , that is until someone asks them to clean windows inside. my point is the best window cleaners will offer there customers the method they want professionally and politely.               on the wfs front will a 1.6 dispatch pull a 400l tank about easy enough.         also to all wfs users who think the ladder is a death sentence , 24 years no falls . please everyone accept both ways have uses but at the end of the day the customer chooses .

[wpclean]

Well said 

[lyndy]

we have dispatch with a 600lt tank,think ours is a 1.9,ive put it over a weigh bridge its fine

[Window Washers]

been a windowcleaner for 24 years .  21 years for a company and last three on my own.        my old boss has had wfs for seven years but still does 90 per cent of his domestic work traditionally, thats eight blokes working for him by ladder . i have my own round which i still do traditionally but thinking of getting wfs not because im a lazy git or a girl thingy but because i want to give my customers the choice. sick of the argument wfs or squeegee the fact is both have uses and if im honest i think comercially wfs wins and domestically traditional is better. what gets my goat is the fact ive cleaned windows for 24 years and some jumped up gits buy a wfs and think its the only and best way and that there experts , that is until someone asks them to clean windows inside. my point is the best window cleaners will offer there customers the method they want professionally and politely.               on the wfs front will a 1.6 dispatch pull a 400l tank about easy enough.         also to all wfs users who think the ladder is a death sentence , 24 years no falls . please everyone accept both ways have uses but at the end of the day the customer chooses .

yep the customer chooses and we also can choose the customers we wish to work for.

I think when you get used to wfp you will change your mind into knowing that wfp is far better on most jobs not all but most.

Ian

p.s ladders are a risk, you have been lucky, I know people that have broke back, legs the lot some you read about some even die, so ladders really are a death sentence it only takes one fall for a game over.

pps I still use ladders (but as little as possible)

[prestige cleaners]

ahh, out monthly wfp v trad debate. 

i use wfp 100% outside

and trad inside.

wfp is by far the best way to clean windows period!

on a side note, saw a poor guy limping down the road today with a single ladder run and his bucket, felt so bad for him.
then just realised he might have just fallen off the damn thing!

should have turned around and offered him and his ladder a lift home 

[chris@c.m.s]

There are plenty of us on this forum who were traditional before switching to water fed pole including myself, I never had any complaints with traditional methods and I don't get any complaints with WFP.

I will never let my customers decide which method I use as most are ignorant of the regulations, I have WFP and the regulations clearly state if an alternative safer method to using ladders is available then it should be used, simple really.

IMO Wfp is better and most on here who can do both would probably agree, some do seem to have problems but that's most likely down to poor technique, in general I think some who have been cleaning commercial property's since the conception of WFP seem to struggle with with the idea of it being suited to domestic, probably due to a lack of training and advice on its use.              

    

[AuRavelling79]

> J Timms

In answer to your van question. Yes. The new shape 07 onwards 1.6 expert will easily pull a 400L. My 1.3 '56 plate multijet diesel doblo does easily.

All the other stuff - well sorry if you don't like the fact that someone comes in new with wfp and is running a selfemployed business in one year after you've taken 25 to get to the same point. It's tough. But that's life.

I wish I'd got into window cleaning earlier and wfp earlier than I did. But if wishes were horses then paupers would ride.

I will never ever ever ever ever, did I say ever? - let a customer tell me how I am going to clean their windows. Tail wagging the dog and all that.

WFP used properly is way way better than trad. and is way way safer. On domestic including georgian and especially leaded it is superb. Insides I do trad. Any ambulant person can do what we do with a few weeks training. Get over it, build your business, look forward and enjoy the rewards.

I love steam engines but I wouldn't want to maintain and fire one when I could hop into a diesel and go. And why should a new guy bother to waste time building a trad. round? Beyond internal work why would you?

[j timms]

> J Timms

In answer to your van question. Yes. The new shape 07 onwards 1.6 expert will easily pull a 400L. My 1.3 '56 plate multijet diesel doblo does easily.

All the other stuff - well sorry if you don't like the fact that someone comes in new with wfp and is running a selfemployed business in one year after you've taken 25 to get to the same point. It's tough. But that's life.

I wish I'd got into window cleaning earlier and wfp earlier than I did. But if wishes were horses then paupers would ride.

I will never ever ever ever ever, did I say ever? - let a customer tell me how I am going to clean their windows. Tail wagging the dog and all that.

WFP used properly is way way better than trad. and is way way safer. On domestic including georgian and especially leaded it is superb. Insides I do trad. Any ambulant person can do what we do with a few weeks training. Get over it, build your business, look forward and enjoy the rewards.

I love steam engines but I wouldn't want to maintain and fire one when I could hop into a diesel and go. And why should a new guy bother to waste time building a trad. round? Beyond internal work why would you?

hear many more complaints about wfp system than i have had traditionally. lost one job to wfp picked it back up again 6 months later . customer said crap job water everywhere hose knocked 2 pots over and wrecked her flowers plus cost more. hmmm not saying its not good on some jobs but ultimately trade will always have a place and the wfp brigade will have to accept that just as us traditionalists have to accept wfp has its use and would be silly to ignore.

[prestige cleaners]

BLOODY PLANT POTS! CAR TYRES! EDGES OF BUILDINGS! TANGLED HOSES! FORGETTING TO TURN IT ON!

Now that does wind me up!

[mci services]

another pin pulled from a grenade : when this gets to page 5 i may take another look

[j timms]

BLOODY PLANT POTS! CAR TYRES! EDGES OF BUILDINGS! TANGLED HOSES! FORGETTING TO TURN IT ON!

Now that does wind me up!
thing is i have a customer who insists i ladder because her last window cleaner (wfp brigade) ruined her plants (SHE HAS MANY)  . i see nothing wrong in providing the traditional method. horses for courses in my mind.

[Paul Coleman]

Yes the customer does have a choice.
It must be remembered though that the window cleaner also has a choice.
The customer can't force me to use ladders or traditional methods on external windows.
I can't force the customer to accept WFP.
At places where the customers requirements and my methods don't match up, the solution is for me to move on or for them to get another cleaner.  No problem really so long as neither party tries to force their requirements on the other party.
However, current health and safety law does say that working at height should only be carried out where there is no alternative and that when working at height is carried out, certain safeguards should be maintained.
Basically, to comply with law, using a ladder as the main method would be such a PITA it would be hard to earn decent money.

[Murdie window cleaning]

Having recently added wfp to my way of working I can say from my experiance that as long as you explain to the customer how it works and reasure them that if there is any issues to let you know, then they a perfectly happy with it.

Has a trad cleaner never trod all over a flower bed or left ladder marks in the lawn ? Each to there own, but I firmly believe that in a few years that most cleaners will be using wfp as the norm.

I do agree that if you do come into window cleaning then you should learn how to clean a window trad, but if they don't then it'll be them that lose work by not being able to do internals or the odd ground floor job. 

[R W C™]

25 years= Trade, Wfs 

It does swing round abouts, I pick up loads of work from wfp guys too simply because they rush a job as theyve underpriced without knowing so rush a job to make the hour rate there told they should get....If windows are cleaned properly with WFP then they will gleam without any marks at all.....

What Gold says is spot on, after over 2 years of being on this site im really starting to take note of his posts 

[Londoner]

I don't really care about the WFP/trad debate. I was trad long enough to always appreciate the satifaction of a good job well done.
This however is a business and I run mine the most efficient (ie profitable) way I can and that means its got to be WFP.

Even the so called trad window cleaners I see around these days, and I see lots believe me, are increasingly not trad anymore. Lots of squeegee bottles and ragging going on.

I'm interested in old wooden boats and you can see how the boat building world must have had all the same debates years ago. It could take a skilled man a month to make a hull in wood whereas a semi skilled man could lay up an equivilent hull in glassfibre in two days.

In essence, thats whats happening in the window cleaning world. Out with the old, in with the new. 

[Tom White]

I've had a few tradesmen work for me over the past few years; we've renovated a run down house.

I can't imagine telling the plasterer that I didn't want him to use that new-fangled plaster that comes in bags; I want the good stuff made out of cow dung and horse hair, mixed in an old tin bath.  Or telling the plumber that I didn't want any of those new easy push fit joints; I wanted it sealed with lead solder.  Or telling the electrician that I didn't want him working according to the current electrical P9 safety regulations; I wanted it done the old fashioned way; regardless of any safety considerations.  Or telling the chimney sweep guy that I wanted a small child shoved up the chimney 'cos I didn't trust the brush to do a proper job.

I mean I didn't tell these guys how to do their job because I just trusted them to have more knowledge than me about their respective trades and I just wanted them to get on with it.  And I also know that I was not their employer, they're self employed, and one of the indicators of being self employed is the ability to do a task the best way you see fit and not have someone dictate how you should work.

[Steve_c]

Well i do both inside Trad outside wfp, i will never do an outside job trad ever again wfp is far more superior than trad. If you get complaints, you are not doing right. Its like the 3 clean con that some guys use buy the 3rd clean wfp will be alright and there will be no spotting. Good luck with your business

[tomy jackson]

i went WFPf or my safety but  its the old rag and sqegy all over a gane and HS it defuntly says if a viubllolternitv sud be used  so all trad giys be a wear its A coming    ,the last rag man rownd my way stoped 5 years a go and useing sqegy now

[Scrimble]

sod letting the customer decided which method, i use pole for everything, i'd pole the insides if i could get away with it.

using ladders is a mugs game, you can break health and safety legislation J Timms but i will not.

[formb]

Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah health and safety Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah  working at height Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah falling off Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah  :

Fact is wfp is quicker. 

Quicker = More money.