[cml]

Today I learnt that one of our client's new Regional Managers made an agreement with another contractor to take over  services we currently perform for them.  The company carried out restructuring and did not let our instructing manager know that his properties were included. We only found out  when both contractors turned up at the same site and wonder what was going on.

After placing a call to our instructing Manager he found our that his Regional Manager had included our properties by mistake.  To make matters worst his Regional Manager said we had no contract because we are instructed verbally to attend sites by Work Orders; furthermore he cannot now terminate his new contractors because they have just signed up for a large long term contract. Adding further insult he said his letter giving us four weeks notice was sufficient notice and that we had to return all keys (no letter was received).  After trying to persuade the Regional Manager that he cannot just terminate our contract without adequate notice we then asked him to read their contract terms to which he replied we did not have one and there is nothing in our files to suggest that we ever had one. When asked for the name of new contractors his response was why?  We explained because some staff may need to be considered under TUPE.  He then said that the company does not want to take on any other staff because they have got enough staff of their own to cover the contract!!!!!!!!!  Rather than continue getting no where  off we went on a search and find mission and found 'THE CONTRACT'.  Called back the Regional Manager he was not in the office but left message to say if we called to return keys by close of business.

Our contract is also a long terms contract, has been running for 4 years and is set to run for another year.  Our periods are fixed.  No clauses that warrants them to terminate the contract has been breach by us.   So now what?  It's going to be an interesting telephone call tomorrow because someone has to go and both contractors have written and signed agreements.    If he cancels our or their agreement  he will end up paying for one of us for this termination............... 

Let this be an eye opener to those on this site who are starting out or otherwise, a CONTRACT IS A MUST and a high price will be paid without one and can only result in a lost to one or the other party.  Even if some one agrees something verbally get into the habit of confirming what was agreed in writing.  You just never know when it would save the day.


   

[derek west]

update us tomorrow won't ya.

[Gilbert Sprous]

I would be very interested in the outcome of this also.   The incoming contractor has requirements under TUPE also and they could be taken to tribunal for unfair dismissal.  TUPE is not a choice and the incoming contractor or even if the client decides to undertake the cleaning themselves has a duty to contact you and the employees in reference to the transfer.  It would be easy for you to prove that you were not involved so most of it will come down on them.  The part I would be interested in is how the client reacts to having two contracts in place. 

Gilbert

[cml]

Trying to contact the Regional Manager and so far I am told he is not available and they do not know when he would be returning to the office.  Their attitude is one that has no sense of urgency.
Now I'm feeling frustrated as our Operational activities for this contract is up in the air and at a stand still.  We've had no trouble with our instructing manager over the years and get on very well.  4 Complaints in 4 years at the start of the contract is by my standards a good result on performance and service delivery.  But my gut instincts tells me something is just not right here.

Questions. 
1.  Why we were never told that these services were under review? 
2.  Why we  were not invited to submit a quotation for works? 
3. Why did the Regional Manager not see it fit to insist that  the incoming contractors deal with the  TUPE issue when he had knowledge of the incoming contractors intentions?
4.  Why issue a contract to a company who clearly flaunted employment legislation and what ever else?
5.  This is a large contract in value so when was it advertised and how was the incoming contractors selected?

Definately not feeling comfortable.  Am I right for feeling like this or trying to pick at straws?

Our position currently as it stands in regards to our staff who cannot be placed elsewhere is that they have been dismissed.  This on its own is going to throw up issues concerning unfair dismissal, redundancy etc.  Right now this would head in our direction so I am pressing to get hold of this Manager ASAP.

[Jason Ryan]

Get legal advice asap.

J

[cml]

I shall be attending the clients site today unanounced because they have not returned any of our calls.

Their position is that:

a) We can accept the termination and seek to recover loss for the remainder of our fixed period.

b) client can retract termination and ask us to continue to perform.....but we would now be put on notice that the contract is to end at the expiry date.

c ) If client terminates the incoming contractor they would have to pay them for any loss arising out of the contract. i.e. equipment purchase to carryout the contract etc.,

This situation from our point of view goes beyond that listed above as there are a number of important legal issues that need to be addressed.

This post aims to serve as an insight as to how complex situations can get between clients when terms of agreements are not written or expressed clearly between both parties.  In our case the contract speaks volumes but can be very difficult where verbal terms are agreed and left to interpretation.

Because we have always worked very well with the Manager who initiated the contract I can't help but feel that every attempt should be made to solve this amicable without going to court.  On the otherhand the way in which the Regional Manager is dealing with this for a mistake he made it leaves one swinging toward the court door.  Nonetheless, my attitude is that no client is a 'dead client' meaning that a contract lost today can still be recapture at a later period in time.  So with this in mind every attempt would be made to solve this amicably without going to court.  In addition we will personally deliver copies of outstanding invoices with a formal demand for payment in settlement of our account.

[JSMC]

will follow this closely

[derek west]

any news yet?
can't wait for the next installment, its all getting quite tense

all though i realise its no joke for you, ya have to laugh a little or you'd crack up. well stressful.

[Pristine Clean]

before you go marching in.

Get legal advice. You stand good ground. You also have the right to get paid for the dismissed staff. TUPE applies here wether they like it or not.

Talk to ACAS at least if you cannot afford a solicitor. Redunacy if the contract is signed and is a legal document. Should be paid possibly by the incomming contractor.

Remain calm, be professional, and go in with details from a solicitor or ACAS. Get the ball rolling.

Dave

[cml]

No real progress today but our demand for payments are in.  All contractual interest are charged and served where late payments exists.  Regional Manager was not about, out on site visits alledgedly.  More like avoidance.  No one else available to deal with the matter.  Letter left with further questions which we require answers by tomorrow noon.  This is the first action in progress.

So new contractors are working and our guys have been pulled off sites and a meeting will be held to discuss our position tomorror.  Those who want to take action will be advised to add new contractors details to their claim and copies of employment contracts will be available for each staff.  Copies have been sent to the incoming contractor who has not responded to anyone yet.  Will get further update during meeting tomorrow.

By withdrawing our staff from site might imply acceptance of termination.  But in all fairness due to the delayed response from the Regional Manager we may head this way if we get no response by noon tomorrow.  No panic on our part is necessary because our position is firm. However if I was in their shoes my knees would be wobbling and having sleepless nights.  Small companies should not be easy to just dispense with and need to stand up for whats right.  We run a legitimate business and will not be put off by their big wigged lawyers.  Nonetheless we will try to secure those staff with the incoming contractors at the earliest.  Currently they are in talks but no actions.  I just can't believe this!

[stalwart]

in the ole days you sent the boys round.................................................times change i suppose :

[johnny_h]

any news ??

[cml]

Employees are in talks and have had meetings the feedback is that they are not happy.  Some have been told that they may not be taken on but in light of this situation (one they have never experienced before) the company will do their best to accommodate them.  As far as a few staff are concerned they have been dismissed and have been so unfairly because they have already got wind shot that this contractor before this consultation took place did not intend to take them on anyway.  They will be contacting ACAS and ETO for further directions. 

Other issues are currently going on.  Deadline for all outstanding payment is up by friday.  It then starts to get worst because we have learnt that we are not the only company left in this situation and there is another.  We have now been passed on to senior management and the Regional Manager has not returned calls or written  to address any concerns; he is either away from his desk or out of office .  A meeting is scheduled for Monday to decide on our next course of actions.  Now thinking about what actions to take next to solve this between all concerned.