[TCS Group]

Hi,

can anybody tell me if there is a serious rival to the Polaris 800 from prochem.

I am thinking about getting one especially for the contract side of our business but if anybody has any first hand knowledge / experience of this machine or a rival.  We would attach a wand to it for smaller areas.

Any help / info would be seriously welcome.

thanks in advance

[Joe H]

What type of work will you be doing with the machine?
You say you have a contract side of the business. Is your business "general cleaning" and you looking for a carpet cleaning machine?

[TCS Group]

We are currently in the cleaning business and are expanding into carpet and upholstery cleaning. The vast majority of our work will be commercial where we will have a combination of small areas with some extremely large areas.

For this reason we decided against the Prochem Steempro max as it would have been impossible to cover the areas surveyed within the timescales specified by the client with only one machine.

So the polaris 800 seemed to be the best bet.  With the wand (s) attachment we are able to address different types of work and smaller areas but do you have any personal experience of this machine ?

Is there something else out there that rivals it for cleaning power and speed ?  Its not cheap but we think that its probably the best possible solution for our requirements.

thanks for your help.

[Joe H]

I have not used a Prochem 800 before, nor any push along, or are they pull along.

I suspect most on here using water will be using a machine with a wand.

Some may have a rotary machine to do larger commercial carpets - works out a lot cheaper then the Polaris 800.

Its a lot of money for a 2 - 2 stage vac and 70psi.  For the list price of that you can almost get a 3 vac machine (3x3stage) with up to 600 psi (variable).

[TCS Group]

what type of rotary machine would you recommend ?

It has a twin motor but only 70psi.  apart from cleaning power and maybe the hose issue what other things should i take into account before buying this ?  Can the pump be changed for a more powerful one ?

We will be spending a lot of money and I want to make sure we get this right.

thanks again Joe.

[Joe H]

Various manufacturers - Numatic, Truvox, many more.
Various sizes 15", 17", 20" are most common and probably 17" most popular, though if you do have large areas maybe a 20" be quickest.
Important that it is a low rpm. The normal polishing rotary will spin much to fast. 170 - 230 rpm is the accepted norm.
Dry Fusion, Texatherm, and Thermadry do machine with hot air system. The first 2 do their own fluids as well that supposed to work with the hot air.
Vac the carpet, spray the carpet, lay down a pad either sprayed or soaked with a cleaning fluid, get the machine on top and work smallish areas at a time - approx 10-16 sq yd.
Either have multitudes of pads, or have tubs to wash the pads as you go along.
Texatherm have a "new" machine that is a hot water extraction, but you can use the tub in it for the rotary pads. Not seen  the machine but you could no doubt get a demo - bursts your budget though.
2nd hand rotarys - pick up for £150-£200 off ebay.
Cheap way of getting into commercial carpet cleaning.

Solutions Cornwall, Alltec and Cleansmart all do a triple vac hot water extraction machine. These are the top of the range portables starting off at about £2500 plus maybe hoses and wands - but you can get deals like you can with the Prochem 800.

You really need to get in some demos on typical situations you will be working. See whats best for your situation.

[Paul Heath]

I have a polaris 700, very good machine, the only trouble, it kept blowing pumps, these were replaced twice under guarentee. Since the last pump it has been gathering dust in the garage. We invested in a "trucky" the only way i clean carpets now.

[Ken Wainwright]

For commercial work, I would seriously consider a low moisture system. Are you working in an office environment?

With any portable extraction system, fill and empty will be a nightmare, as so too could be humidity for computers etc. because of the greater drying times. If tiles, there is a greater risk of moisture penetration between joins and ditto in extreme cases for suspended floors.

The only commercial I rinse/extract is licensed premises, restaurants etc. Everything else is Dry Fusion.

Safe and happy cleaning
The Ken

[richie]

Hi ken,  Hope all is well.
A few weeks ago we were cleaning a large open plan office that had carpet tiles that had never been cleaned in the 4yrs they have been down.  Any padding system would not have cleaned these tiles the way they needed to be.  Yes it would have been possible to make them look clean but in reality that would have only been the surface.  We opted to use the Scorpion.  We ran 125 feet of vac hose, had a hose pipe direct from the toilets to  the machine with a valve tap end and a APO again direct to the toilets. This meant no buckets required for filling/emptying.  We had no problem at all with humidity or increased dry times. We used 2 air movers and moved them around every 30 mins.  The carpets needed deep cleaning & dry fusion or any other padding system would not have done this.

My advice to TCS is.....if you are serious about adding carpet cleaning for your clients then dont do it half hearted.  I am assuming that you offer high quality daily cleaning.  The last thing you want to do is take on a job and not been able to offer your clients the same high quality service. Get yourself a portable extractor that has at least 2 x 3 stage vac motors and a 200psi water pump.  If you can stretch to a 3 x 3 stage with 400psi + water pump then this would be much better.  I would if i was you also purchase a rotary machine and pads then bonnet over the areas you have extracted. You can also use the padding system on carpets that that dont require the deep cleaning of a portable extraction machine.  There should be no short cuts to carpet cleaning. Keep up with your high standards and get the right equipment.

Richie.

[French]

The Prochem Polaris range are fantastic if you use them correctly and in the right situation, I have demonstrated these machines many times in the past to some very large companies/hotels/schools etc and have had some fantastic results. Truckmounts/ bonnet machines and portables are also good but not for every situation.
Trust your own instincts and buy what you feel is the right machine for the job, if your contract work takes off you will then be able to invest in another type of machine at a later date.

Also hi to Richie and Ken - yes I still read the forums every know and then!!

Steve - now living in South West France

[TCS Group]

Hi,

thanks for the messages.

Our whole philisophy is quality and this is something we have been carefully building over the past few years.

Most of our contract situations will come with a monthly maintenance schedule for the carpets and its up to us to keep their carpets looking clean, fresh and healthy.  As in our current business we have found that careful processes with a thorough understanding of the work being done can also lengthen the natural lifespan of the items being cleaned.

We would like to show to our customers that we want to maintain their carpets  / upholstery which in the long run will save them money.

Getting back to the Polaris.  What worries me is the lack of psi and the fact that you wont be able to run more than 1 / 2 at apush hoses off it.  It also fairly bulky but for the large open spaces we are tackling we couldnt possibly do it with a wand system.  Is it possible to replace the pump for a more powerful one ?

Can I also ask if everyone with a HWE system uses the following process for carpet cleaning

- Extensive vacuuming of the carpets
- pre-spray & stain removal if necesary
- Water extraction and then pile brushing

We have been told that the current incumbents of the contracts do not vacuum anything but go straight to the actual carpet cleaning.  Whereas we wanted to vac and if necessary pre-spray.

Generally speaking we want to have the most solid processes and methodology for cleaning which means that the customer will always get the best possible results every time.
 
We want to do this properly.
thanks again.

[richie]

We cover vast amounts of carpets every week using a wand.  You will surprised at how quick you will pick up the best way to use it.  Providing your daily cleaners are vacuuming the carpets properly every day i would see no need for you to do them again before cleaning the carpet.  Yes you will require a pre-spray and for this i would use Prochem Power Burst. Its probably the best all round carpet cleaning pre-spray on the market.  Dont be tempted to use Crystal Green or Double Clean in the tank with your fresh water.  In most situations providing you rinse the carpets correctly you should only require fresh hot water in the tank however you may require a acid rinse on other occasions.  On very heavily soils either use a pile brush or something like a Sebo Duo to aggitate the pre-spray into the carpet.  Machine wise, personally i would still opt for a normal portable rather than the Polaris.  I would not advise fitting a bigger pump into because you may struggl to get all the water back out.  I bet that you would work as quick if not quicker using a wand.

Richie.


Hi Steve,  Hope all is well.

[Ken Wainwright]

Hi again TCS

Whilst I agree 100% with Richie about the advantages of rinse/extraction, whether T/M or porty, I still feel that a quality LM system would be a better business decision for someone to maintain carpets on a monthly basis. You don't need a sledgehammer to crack a nut.

I do quite a bit of maintenance myself ranging from 3 monthly to annually and it's all done with Dry Fusion and quality & durability of clean are not a problem.

There is however an area I would disagree with Richie and perhaps others, and that is regarding vacuuming.

In the contract cleaning environment, timing and costing do not, IMO, allow sufficient time for a carpet to be vacuumed to the higher standards required by carpet cleaners. My experiences tell me that the typical office cleaner will use a cannister type of suction only vacuum and because of the time restrictions will at best only remove surface litter and debris from the carpet. For high quality carpet cleaning, as taught by IICRC, NCCA, Woolsafe, HydraMaster, Prochem, Chemspec et al, it is necessary to use a twin motor upright style vacuum with a beater bar/brush, and to be used correctly, not just a "quick wizz over".

My advice, TCS, is to explore the options with Low Moisture systems. You'll find that most manufacturers have something to offer.

I'm willing to bet that there are more office carpets maintained with an LM rotary machine than any other. The quality and appearance of their work is more down to the tecs. and their training than the actual tools they use. Rinse extraction requires a higher knowledge and skill level than any LM system.

Safe and happy cleaning
The Ken

[richie]

Hi Ken, i think i should have stated or asked TCS a few questions prior to making my last post.  I agree that 95% of daily cleaners do not vac the carpts properly or with a upright vacuum.  If the carpets are to be cleaned on a monthly or upto a 3 monthly basis then a LM system would be ideal however, even if the carpets were maintained on a monthly basis i would still use Hot Water Extraction 6 - 12 monthly depending on traffic.

Richie.