[Glen]

I have  a commercial job where I clean all of the office windows and the inside of the reception area. I charge £28.50 and it takes about 50 minutes. This is a good price and have been doing this particular job for years.
The manager approached me the other day and asked me to clean the windows in a new extension, as a one off. Usually I steer clear of initial cleans due the time factor and how much I have to charge but this time I didn't as it was a long-term customer. The job took me four hours of hard graft standing on a forklift (h&s no no), including the regular clean, and I charged £115 as it took me nearly five times as long as the usual clean and put me back a few hours. The manager wasn't there when I handed in the invoice but he rang me up later to complain. He said it was too much for four hours work. I explained it was a difficult job but he wouldn't accept this so I reduced it to £95 as I didn't want to lose the business.


I have had this problem before - a customer might be quite happy to pay £35 for a job which takes an hour but won't pay £100 for 3 hours.

What would anyone else have charged?
Do you ster clear of initial cleans as the customer does not appreciate the extra time/work involved?

[s.hughes]

After many years I steer clear. But like you on a regular good customer I would have done the job. As they are good customers I would have allowed for a reduction which not many w/c on this site would have done but its customer care. Its the type of job that I would have done on a late Thursday or Friday to end the week making sure all my other work was done. But remember that its always good to point out an hourly rate before you start. If you look at the other threads you will see where others have given a price and found it to take a lot longer and then they are out of pocket.
With you it may be worth mentioning that it was a dangerous job and you will reduce the amount because they are good customers. I always praise them up, it makes them feel good but I also let them know that nothing comes cheap.
Anyway dont feel bad you still made over £20 an hour so thats good.

Steveyboy

[The Bear]

I always give a price up front, never do a job without giving it.

If you are too low, hard luck, if too high, well done.

Plus, make sure they know its for the job, not by the hour.

[replacement]

Goto agree with The Bear, always give a price before you start. If you dont want to do it make it big as sometime they say Yes.

I get alot of customers asking me to do this and that, but i tell them a price first. Some say NO some say Yes. And some thing i should do it for free.

Justin

[AuRavelling79]

Glen - I agree with How Much? As it's a good customer - bite your tongue and take it on the chin!

[windows_chepstow]

It sounds like a lack of communication problem.  Whenever I'm asked to do an add-on, I'll always say, 'I'll give you a quote'.  And then I give them a quote, before I do the job.  At that stage, if you wish, you can explain to the customer how the quote was calcultated.

I don't think it's ever right to do a job without quoting first; then just submitting a bill.  You're just asking for trouble.

Your customer also should've had the common sense to acertain how much it would cost rather than complain later.

 

[s.hughes]

Hi Chepstow
Problem is you could be underpricing. If overpriced then hard luck on the customer they agreed to the price. Going through previous threads it has come to light that by going in with a quote on the total job could end up taking you longer than first thought. I always give them a high hourly rate and then say that because they are such good customers who always pay on time blah blah I would reduce it to such n such. I'm happy even if I dont want the job and they think and are getting a good deal. Like Glen, if you've really got a good customer that you dont want to loose then just do the job but make sure all your important earners are out the way.

Steveyboy

[texas girl]

Maybe quoting beforehand is the way to go, but on the other hand this is one of your better paying accounts so I think it is OK to bite the bullet a bit.

Chances are that manager makes about 1/2 of what you make based on an hourly basis.

He now thinks he got a better deal because you lowered the rate. Maybe a good marketing tool would be to quote what a new account would pay, and then knock off 15% and tell them because they are a good customer you will lower the price a bit.

Some times it is a game of "feeling like they got  the best deal".

I think you did the right thing. I have been in business 25 years and still learn something new everyday.

Hugs,

Texas Girl 

[Ian_Giles]

It's a toughie when you are in that position, giving an hourly rate is a pig, I hate doing it, if you tell them you are going to charge £30 an hour they'll have a fit But that could well be the rate at which you could earn on a priced up job.
Ultimately you are better if you can price it up.
If the job is one that just the thought of it leaves you groaning inside, and it is for a long standing customer, you have to do your best and try and 'load the bases' in your favour.
Point out all the problems, access, ladders, pig pen clean and so on. I try to tell them that as it is just a one off clean it is going to be expensive, that it will be close to three times what you would charge if it were a monthly clean, particularly if you can't use ladders(WFP notwithstanding)

But you still managed 20 quid an hour for the job, much easier if you can price first, it is just so hard to justify charging £25.00 or £30.00 an hour, the customer won't understand, they'll look at their bill and think, "Thirty quid an hour! Hell, thats £240 a day, thats £1200 a week!! The cheeky sod isn't getting away with THAT "
It doesn't work that way in reality of course, but you can't sit them down and explain that.
But you live & learn, next time he asks you, regardless of how good the regular job is, tell him you aren't interested (unless he is having it done at least 3 times a year) the job is just too far underpriced.

Time I was at work!

Ian

[dustycorner]

Hi,

I t would be interesting to know what happens next time the manager needs extra work done, he now has the initiative. Quote 1st explaing why the job is priced hourly, if  the manager doesnt like the price you don't have to do the extra work, you can still keep the lines of communication open with good customer liason.

Cheers Mark.

[matt]

for extra's i allways work out how long the job will take then add 50 %

BUT

i allways expalin this is a CEILING PRICE, if the job goes well, i will bring the price down a little, peolle think they are getting a good deal when you knock 10 % off and every1 is a winner

[rosskesava]

We tend to do the way Texas Girl does.

That is to say that if it was a new customer or job it would cost x amount but as they are existing customers it's 25% cheaper. For us, that works well and I feel comfortable quoting that way.

The problem of judging how long the job will take, that's the tricky bit and that's where experience comes in and I can't think of any way around it.

[s.hughes]

Hi Ian
Going on from what you were saying. Cant you remeber that time you pulled of all that tape from new double glazed windows thinking it was going to take 1 hour only to find it took 3. At that time pricing up front meant you were out of pocket.

Steveyboy

[windows_chepstow]

How Much,

You've got a good memory and I do understand your point about the possibility of 'under quoting' up front; but then there's the problem of what happened to Glen.

So I'd be hesitant about doing a job and then giving a bill later.

I quite like Matt's idea which is to basically state a high, but bracketed price:

for extra's i allways work out how long the job will take then add 50 %

BUT

i allways expalin this is a CEILING PRICE, if the job goes well, i will bring the price down a little, peolle think they are getting a good deal when you knock 10 % off and every1 is a winner

In the past for add ons, I told the two neighbors (who both wanted their gutters cleaned - including all the white bits underneath (soffits?)) that I would charge £25.00 per hour.  Each house took two hours, so I made £100 for four hours hard and dirty work (would've been simpler with a WFP I'm sure).

They were both okay about it though; but others probably wouldn't.

[easycleanwindows]

If you go to a solicitor he charges you £100 plus an hour nothing you can do as no one else can do it anyway.I charge £45.00per hour and allways get paid.Tell them up front if they say its to much forget it cos you didnt have it in the first place.I tell you a story a company i clean for can only get a cherry picker to do all their windows over three days.I charge them £100.00 per hour for 10 hours with wfp and am still saving them money.When someone tells me its too much when i quote up i dont even go into details about insurance etc etc i just say thankyou and walk away i would never bring the price down to keep them happy pleanty more work out there to do.

[Paul Coleman]

It sounds like a lack of communication problem.  Whenever I'm asked to do an add-on, I'll always say, 'I'll give you a quote'.  And then I give them a quote, before I do the job.  At that stage, if you wish, you can explain to the customer how the quote was calcultated.

I don't think it's ever right to do a job without quoting first; then just submitting a bill.  You're just asking for trouble.

Your customer also should've had the common sense to acertain how much it would cost rather than complain later.

 

I would always do a quote first except for those rare, unpriceable jobs.  One of my customers wanted me to clean a marquee recently - mainly due to a build-up of green crap off the trees.  It doesn't remotely resemble anything I've done before and it was very hard to say how long it would take.  Although I didn't quote for the job, I gave her a "per hour" quote for it (it was a big marquee with thick green stuff on it).  There were a load of garden ornaments/equipment to shift around too so that made it harder to price.  That was exceptional but normally it's a quote for the job rather than per hour.  Sometimes customers forget that you have a lot more overheads when you are self-employed.  Admittedly window cleaning has less overheads than most businesses but they still have to be paid.