[M Henderson]

There's been a couple of threads lately about how much a round is worth. As has been said before, a round is only worth what somebody is prepared to pay for it.

Here's something to think about though-

There are people out there (especially now with lots of people getting laid off work) that want to start window cleaning from scratch.  To someone like this, a ready-made, compact, well priced and established round is worth more than you might think.

Let's say 'Jim' has a job as an employee and takes home £1,500 per month after tax. Then one day he's called into the office and told that he's shortly going to be made redundant. He has a family, a mortgage, a car on credit and other essential outgoings amounting to £1200 per month. 
Jim has always liked the idea of working for himself so he decides that now is a good time to go for it and he likes the idea of window cleaning.

He considers buying a ready-made, compact, well priced and established round that turns over £2,000 per month. The current window cleaner is doing the whole round working only three days per week.  He’s asking £10,000 which is 5 times the monthly turnover.

He could go out canvassing and build a round. – But how long would it take him to get a well priced, compact round that earns him £2,000 per month? How much would he be effectively losing in the meantime? And what kind of work would it be to start with?

Anyone who has built a round from scratch knows that it takes a good few months, even years to build a REALLY GOOD QUALITY round – because a good quality round is refined and all the hit and miss customers are weeded out, bad payers and time wasters eliminated, prices adjusted etc.  Unless you are really fortunate and hit on the right area, a fresh round is likely going to be scattered about and not very compact.

Jim still has his outgoings to pay so he would need to live on his redundancy money or savings until he builds a sufficient round to cover the expenses. It’s the money that he would have in his pocket during that time if he were to buy the round that he has to evaluate as he weighs up the decision.
The longer it takes him to canvass and build the round, the more he is effectively losing.

I reckon it would take around 150 – 200 hours of canvassing to build a round of £2,000 of regular, good customers.

So unless Jim dedicates 3 or 4 evenings a week to go out canvassing week in, week out for a good 4 months, even at 5 or 6 cleans worth – if it’s a GOOD QUALITY ROUND, in Jim’s situation I reckon it’s still worth his while to buy.

It’s a bit like wanting to lay a new lawn for the kids to play on. Summer has just started. Do you sow grass seed or re-turf the lawn?
 :

[martinsadie]

There's been a couple of threads lately about how much a round is worth. As has been said before, a round is only worth what somebody is prepared to pay for it.

Here's something to think about though-

There are people out there (especially now with lots of people getting laid off work) that want to start window cleaning from scratch.  To someone like this, a ready-made, compact, well priced and established round is worth more than you might think.

Let's say 'Jim' has a job as an employee and takes home £1,500 per month after tax. Then one day he's called into the office and told that he's shortly going to be made redundant. He has a family, a mortgage, a car on credit and other essential outgoings amounting to £1200 per month. 
Jim has always liked the idea of working for himself so he decides that now is a good time to go for it and he likes the idea of window cleaning.

He considers buying a ready-made, compact, well priced and established round that turns over £2,000 per month. The current window cleaner is doing the whole round working only three days per week.  He’s asking £10,000 which is 5 times the monthly turnover.

He could go out canvassing and build a round. – But how long would it take him to get a well priced, compact round that earns him £2,000 per month? How much would he be effectively losing in the meantime? And what kind of work would it be to start with?

Anyone who has built a round from scratch knows that it takes a good few months, even years to build a REALLY GOOD QUALITY round – because a good quality round is refined and all the hit and miss customers are weeded out, bad payers and time wasters eliminated, prices adjusted etc.  Unless you are really fortunate and hit on the right area, a fresh round is likely going to be scattered about and not very compact.

Jim still has his outgoings to pay so he would need to live on his redundancy money or savings until he builds a sufficient round to cover the expenses. It’s the money that he would have in his pocket during that time if he were to buy the round that he has to evaluate as he weighs up the decision.
The longer it takes him to canvass and build the round, the more he is effectively losing.

I reckon it would take around 150 – 200 hours of canvassing to build a round of £2,000 of regular, good customers.

So unless Jim dedicates 3 or 4 evenings a week to go out canvassing week in, week out for a good 4 months, even at 5 or 6 cleans worth – if it’s a GOOD QUALITY ROUND, in Jim’s situation I reckon it’s still worth his while to buy.

It’s a bit like wanting to lay a new lawn for the kids to play on. Summer has just started. Do you sow grass seed or re-turf the lawn?
 :

thats what i did and what ive said all along,buy and earn from day one

[Sunshine/Cleaning]

I like the grass seed/turf analogy, spot on.

[Andy@w.c.s]

yea but who's going to cut the grass ?
and i am sure it wouldn't take 150 hrs to do ?






or am i missing something

[windowswashed]

If someone has just been made redundant they have time on their side not cash to splash.

Their redundancy payment (if they worked for last employer long enough to qualify for reundancy) will be their only secure means of paying their bills and debts. What percentage of demoralised, optimistic, entrepeneur, who's just lost their PAYE job, would want to to purchase with their hard cash for a good will gestured opportunistic job with no guarantees that the customers will stay loyal in this economic time of recession approaching it's third quarter. Only a very brave optimist would part with large sums as opposed to get off their backside and canvass like mad to pre-occupy their minds and spirits into building a tidy ongoing income in a job they might even despise.

[Ian_Giles]

A good thread...

Comedy replies deleted.

Where canvassing a round up in today's climate is concerned I would say 200 hours would be pretty optimistic to build a GOOD AND COMPACT ROUND let alone a decent round.

Around my neck of the woods there are loads of window cleaners now, 10 years ago I think I knew everyone on first name terms, very different now.

Another thing with canvassing is that not everyone can cope with it...the continual knock backs, going to house after house only to be told they already have a window cleaner...a compact round in just a few months?..get on! You will be foraging far and wide, it takes many years to build a round that is tightly compact.
I'm not saying it can't be done but out of...say...100 newbies going out canvassing up their new rounds, how many of those do you think would succeed in building the ideal compact round in under a year, let alone in a couple of hundred hours? You could probably count them on the  fingers of one hand, even on the hand of someone whose had a couple of fingers amputated!!
And even when someone does go out canvassing almost everyone screws up the pricing to begin with, underpricing no end of work.
Given that the majority of those getting in to window cleaning are ordinary Joe's and not business trained or orientated people, with the onset of WFP and all of the increased running costs on top of startup costs, this makes understanding price structure even harder.

I read many posts where people claim great earning rates, why even myself has work where I can earn £100 an hour (true by the way) but that is just an isolated job no way on this planet can I earn that all the time!!
Not many window cleaners out there submit 20k to the tax man every year, most submit under that figure, and from that figure you have to take all the running costs before you arrive at your actual income of course.

So, buy a very compact round turning over 25k a year for only 3 days work a week for 10k?

Yes please uncle!

However: If that is a round built up by a round building team merely claiming it is 3 days work a week, and that round has been built up over just a few weeks with a team of canvassers then no way on this planet would it be  worth anything like that sum of money

If someone has just been made redundant they have time on their side not cash to splash.

Their redundancy payment (if they worked for last employer long enough to qualify for reundancy) will be their only secure means of paying their bills and debts. What percentage of demoralised, optimistic, entrepeneur, who's just lost their PAYE job, would want to to purchase with their hard cash for a good will gestured opportunistic job with no guarantees that the customers will stay loyal in this economic time of recession approaching it's third quarter. Only a very brave optimist would part with large sums as opposed to get off their backside and canvass like mad to pre-occupy their minds and spirits into building a tidy ongoing income in a job they might even despise.

Where the above is quoted I would agree only in the situation I've outlined with a round built by a round building team, but if it was a round built up over many years, with well priced work and a well honed round, then I think it would most certainly be worth it.
Would I spend 10k without first testing the waters in a job I don't know whether I would like or not?
No, I'd personally have gone out the old fashioned way and knocked on doors for a few weeks and cleaning what work I could acquire, if I found I enjoyed the work and the chance to buy a round like the one mentioned cropped up then I would part with my money.
Another thing to remember is that a round that can be done in 3 days a week by an experienced pro will be a vastly different thing for a newbie so it would take a few months before a full on newbie could get close to doing the work in that time, so a round purchased in such a way would also require ongoing help and training too.
It isn't a case of spending 10k and suddenly having a job that will earn you 25k a year!!

But I agree with the general premise of buying such a round rather than spend months and years building and honing such a round.

Ian

[M Henderson]

I agree with everything you said Ian.

Where canvassing a round up in today's climate is concerned I would say 200 hours would be pretty optimistic to build a GOOD AND COMPACT ROUND let alone a decent round.

Just to clarify, I wasn't saying that you can build a GOOD and COMPACT round in 200 hours.

He could go out canvassing and build a round. – But how long would it take him to get a well priced, compact round that earns him £2,000 per month? How much would he be effectively losing in the meantime? And what kind of work would it be to start with?

Anyone who has built a round from scratch knows that it takes a good few months, even years to build a REALLY GOOD QUALITY round

What I was saying is that:

I reckon it would take around 150 – 200 hours of canvassing to build a round of £2,000 of regular, good customers.
,

So he could theoretically build a bog standard round in that time, but to have a GOOD QUALITY, COMPACT round would take much longer and likely would involve buying other local window cleaner's rounds to insert into his own.  Obviously there is nothing to stop him canvassing as well at the same time.

[Ian_Giles]

Wasn't disagreeing in any way, was more or less highlighting to windowswashed that to get the kind of round you outlined would take way more than a couple of hundred hours of canvassing!

My own round is a very good one (got a quiet day today though) but I travel all over the place for my work, compact it is not!
On a personal level I would not want a truly compact round, I actually enjoy travelling about, hated it when at times in the past I've had work where it is one house after another on the same estate or road.
but I also accept that is what most on here strive for!!

Ian

[M Henderson]

I know what you mean. So for your kind of round I would imagine you have to target a certain clientel and get a price which covers your time travelling.

I think that kind of round is great if you work on your own.

I would guess that if two men were working the round, you'd likely not do a great deal more than you would on your own, due to the travel time between.

[martinsadie]

If someone has just been made redundant they have time on their side not cash to splash.

Their redundancy payment (if they worked for last employer long enough to qualify for reundancy) will be their only secure means of paying their bills and debts. What percentage of demoralised, optimistic, entrepeneur, who's just lost their PAYE job, would want to to purchase with their hard cash for a good will gestured opportunistic job with no guarantees that the customers will stay loyal in this economic time of recession approaching it's third quarter. Only a very brave optimist would part with large sums as opposed to get off their backside and canvass like mad to pre-occupy their minds and spirits into building a tidy ongoing income in a job they might even despise.

i did and never looked back

[sparklebright]

An interesting thread.

I began wcing whilst still working as a Sales Rep. The company I worked for began cheating me out of bonuses and I had always wanted to work for myself. I knew several windys so did some research. And conveniently the company car had roof-bars. I kid you not.

My point is this. I did both I bought three days from the friend of a friend, and canvassed to build up work. And it took months to build up enough work. Some days I would canvas and get nothing from 4 or 5 hours of solid knocking. Others I would do better. After a while my company and I made a deal they would give me some cash and I would go quietly. What a result.

But bought work is almost never as good as it sounds (except when I sell it of course  )
So I would say the ideal would be to buy some work, and keep some cash back just in case.
So if you are selling work, perhaps parcel it up in smaller lumps...Like a starter package...