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diddydoodoo

  • Posts: 3
Rotten Flat roofs!!!!!!!
« on: February 19, 2005, 09:49:50 pm »
Has anyone had a "problem" with a flat roof, yes you can take that to mean I went through one.  It was rotten as it had been leaking for ages, and it wasn't clear from above.  Customer wants me to pay for it but I'm not sure I am liable.

Anyone had a similar experience or are you all just too good?

Aargh!

AuRavelling79

  • Posts: 25385
Re: Rotten Flat roofs!!!!!!!
« Reply #1 on: February 19, 2005, 11:40:04 pm »
Without knowing all the facts I'd say start making noises about if he's going to take that line then you'll be the one presenting a bill for your medical treatment as he's knowingly allowed you onto a dodgy roof - watch them back off sharpish!

If they've regularly allowed you onto that roof in the past I reckon they've given tacit approval for you to do so. They may be partially liable to you for any injury that may have occured or which may develop from your fall.

If he's not reasonable drop him and get a bit of legal advice sharpish.

It's a game of three halves!

Londoner

Re: Rotten Flat roofs!!!!!!!
« Reply #2 on: February 20, 2005, 08:34:04 am »
It makes no difference what the circumstances are . If someone goes through the roof its the house holders liability. Even if its a burglar.
However, the chances of you getting anything out of him are zero.

Ian Rochester

  • Posts: 2588
Re: Rotten Flat roofs!!!!!!!
« Reply #3 on: February 20, 2005, 11:44:55 am »
We always establish with the owner prior to starting any work, if we have permission to go onto their roof, whether its flat or sloping, we also inform them of any faults on the roof.

In your case if the owner wants to make a claim you may have to run it through your liability insurance or if you are a member of any organisations, FSB or NFMW&GC check with their legal departments.

Keep us informed of the outcome.

marc al

Re: Rotten Flat roofs!!!!!!!
« Reply #4 on: February 20, 2005, 03:34:49 pm »
 I was up on one this week, it felt very soft, so I made sure I walked at where the joists were, find one then they should be at approx 450 centres.

replacement

Re: Rotten Flat roofs!!!!!!!
« Reply #5 on: February 20, 2005, 04:19:10 pm »
This is want alot of Public liability Insurance will not cover you for.

(1) Accidental Damage to property i am working on or any employees.
 
(2) Must not exceed the higher of 15m
 
(3) No erection of Scafold
 
(4) Does not insurance for wearing a Harness
 
(5) Not insured if i use heat appliation
 
(6) Terriosts
 
(7) Must insure Equipment is serviced via Suppliers recommendations.
 
(8 ) £100 excess or less than 2 yrs experince extra £250 ontop of the first £100.

Now we all have it for the First one (1) but if you check on yours you will find it saying Exculded for Property worked apon. I was not happy with this as this is why i have insurance in the first place and on further talks with my Insurance provider all PL is like this now. But saying that you can get it with Acciendent damage to property worked apon but it cost's thousands.

Now i asked the question what happens if i slip while working and i drop my wfp ontop of the car.

 Answer The home owner must prove there floor was non slip.

I used the same question but this time Act of God ( Ie a gust of wind ) blows pole out of hand onto car, it was same answer Home owner must prove it was a Act of God.

Now i was also told to insure i have a camera with me all the time as well, Just in case and never admit liabilty.

Justin

Ps Check them Insurance policys if i was you as your not covered for nothing really.

diddydoodoo

  • Posts: 3
Re: Rotten Flat roofs!!!!!!!
« Reply #6 on: February 20, 2005, 09:27:26 pm »
Dear Brothers-in-arms,

Thanks for all replies, I haven't accepted liability at all, just waiting for him to contact me.

Will keep you posted,

diddydoodoo.

rosskesava

Re: Rotten Flat roofs!!!!!!!
« Reply #7 on: February 20, 2005, 09:50:22 pm »
Apart from anything legal etc, the courts have a thing called 'accepted practise'.

It's genereally accepted that flat roofs are safe to walk on. As far as I understand it (from my tortured days on the railways) if a flat roof is not safe to walk on, then it should be clearly marked as so.

Suppose some type of incident occured in that  property and the firemen or police or whoever turned up and had to use that flat roof, they would have no way of knowing it was unsafe unless it was signed as unsafe.

Duke

Re: Rotten Flat roofs!!!!!!!
« Reply #8 on: February 21, 2005, 04:41:14 pm »
I used to have one with a small extension flat roof...It was like a trampoline up there....but now I'm on the pole....no more problems....

Ian_Giles

  • Posts: 2986
Re: Rotten Flat roofs!!!!!!!
« Reply #9 on: February 21, 2005, 06:39:52 pm »
Justins post made interesting, is scary reading, what the hell is the point of Public liability if you are not covered for accidental damage?
They have obviously narrowed the scope enormously of what is covered.
Some years ago now I was collecting off the customer, the day was a windy one, and right in front of them a gust of wind came along and blew my ladder off the wall it was leaning against, and it fell with an almighty bang right across the bonnet of his car.
My insurance paid up no problem. But I should not have left my ladder unattended on such a windy day, the fault was mine.
I'm not sure how I would now be covered, would my insurance company refuse to pay out because of my negligence?
On another occasion my foot went through a flat roof because it was rotten, this wasn't a full roof, was just a slight porch type of thing that also went over a protruding bay window.
The guy was an a**ehole, but the insurance paid up, he got a complete roof out of my insurance, damn thing was rotten >:(
Note: make sure you have a camera and take detailed photo's of any damage, also get a recorder on your phone so you can have some proof of conversations, may not be usable in a court of law, but its still proof of what was or was not said.
There are only accidents because of human error, non of us will scratch a window purposely, or break or damage a customers property with deliberate intent.

I guess it means you have to lie through your teeth as to how an accident happens to prevent someone taking you to court at your own expense rather than that of your insurer. Then of course you are risking having your collar felt by the men in blue if it came to light.

It doesn't seem right that insurers should have it all there own way, an insurance should be meaningful, and it should be very clear on what it covers and does not cover, and that should not mean it being written so tiny you need a magnifying glass to read, and a degree in legalease to understand it! >:(

What would happen if I was cleaning an upstairs window with my WFP and knocked a plant pot off a window sill, that then lands on a member of the public?

Where damage to a customers property is concerned, for the most part the cost is usually not large enough to warrent trying to claim on your insurance due to the access on your policy, but for expensive damage we want to be covered!!!!

Ian (feeling more and more narked off the more I think about it >:()
Ian. ISM CLEANING SERVICES

Duke

Re: Rotten Flat roofs!!!!!!!
« Reply #10 on: February 21, 2005, 07:00:31 pm »
oh yes, they do want their cake and eat it.....

diddydoodoo

  • Posts: 3
Re: Rotten Flat roofs!!!!!!!
« Reply #11 on: May 01, 2005, 11:09:19 pm »
hello all B-I-A,

no news is good news but in mean time got legal advice and according to few lawyers the only way a tradesman ( in our dreams!!!! Heh!  Heh! ) can be liable is by being 'negligent'  If not negligent then not liable.  If I had been taking a call and walking around the roof chatting and not doing any work then negligent.  If after a warning from customer that roof is dodgy and we carry on regardless      ( Beaut. South )  then we 'are' negliglent

Reply if wish ,

live long and prosper toodle pip

DD

gaza

  • Posts: 1642
Re: Rotten Flat roofs!!!!!!!
« Reply #12 on: May 02, 2005, 02:24:05 am »
HI:Tell them, your not insured,for work carried out on their property,but you have public liability,give them the no of a local builder and drop them as a customer.never mind the ripples from it.ripples can only travel so far.I had the same problem with a customer,they are sure to be angry,but as I explained if their fence  post was rotten and I leant against it and it snapped and I recieved a broken leg/arm I could sue them for injurys, so think themselves lucky you never injuried yourself.
IM AT THAT AGE MY BACK GOES OUT MORE THAN I DO

bobjarrett

  • Posts: 27
Re: Rotten Flat roofs!!!!!!!
« Reply #13 on: May 02, 2005, 09:18:35 am »
Hi diddy i went through roof well one leg right upto knee panicked liked mad , phoned customer he went mad , he gave me permission to go up there felt bad , anyway he said it was only 3 years old , i am insured  etc , anyway my insures looked so did his there was no visible rotting etc , turns out i thihk he had to pay out of his own pocket , and my insurers asked if i was hurt if so i could sue him , i think it is the home owners duty to keep hse upto repair , always ask permission , but if there were signs of rotten roof i think it would of been differant story i dont do windows for him anymore hope things turn out ok .
bob jarrett-smear clear windows

bobjarrett

  • Posts: 27
Re: Rotten Flat roofs!!!!!!!
« Reply #14 on: May 02, 2005, 09:26:32 am »
And i forgot to mentoin the roof was 15 years old be careful what you say , you shuold contact insurance company asap, keep your distance and go to doctor about any indurys , mine was my doctor how is that for luck every thing turned out ok didnt have to pay a penny still felt bad about it.
bob jarrett-smear clear windows