[jeff1]

If it was mine I would bin the B&Q cable and make one up using your artic cable, if you add your own socket then it must be waterproof(IP56)
What is the rateing of the RCD?

[jeff1]

Sorry forgot to add it should be rated at 16amp minimum.

[ftp]

Right i have Actic extension cable from vac with those round blue connectors culminating in an rcd plug 30ma with 13a fuse. Is there another kind of rcd plug i should be using?

[jeff1]

It will do but not ideal, to be very honest with you, all the suppliers on here should get a grip of the vacs they should give everyone who buys one the correct advice and shouldn't be selling 240v for external work, I notice a few of them do sell 110v and these are the ones that should be purchased for external work using a 110v transfomer.

Its expensive to cover yourself correctly using 240v here is a link to the type of protection you should be using if your using 240v. Like I say its not cheap.

www.tlc-direct.co.uk/Products/CS56C313slash2slash4EL.html?source=adwords&kw=rcd%2013a%20socket&gclid=CLPKrtnUn5YCFQyvQwodTAc57Q

[Glyn H]

all the suppliers on here should get a grip of the vacs they should give everyone who buys one the correct advice and shouldn't be selling 240v for external work

Perhaps manufacturers of  the  litrally millions of 240 volt pressure washers  in the UK (Eg. Karcher, Alto etc.etc) shouldnt be selling them either !

[jeff1]

Here we go again Glyn
I'm talking for professional use not domestic use. :

[Glyn H]

Jeff
You make wide sweeping statements without  considering the facts.

Do you not consider the following small example of a much larger list to be professional ?
Large motor repair garages,fleet transport depots, commercial vehicle test centres, car dealers,mobile car valeters,  professional hand car wash,skip hire companies, plant hire companies, reclaimation companies etc at all these establishments  you will see both large electrical powered steam cleaners, cold pressure washers and vacumm cleaners being used in the open air.

As you havent actually seen our guttervac you will not have the benifit of noting that the units switches are protected by sealed waterproof housings.
 

[jeff1]

Jeff
You make wide sweeping statements without  considering the facts.

Do you not consider the following small example of a much larger list to be professional ?
Large motor repair garages,fleet transport depots, commercial vehicle test centres, car dealers,mobile car valeters,  professional hand car wash,skip hire companies, plant hire companies, reclaimation companies etc at all these establishments  you will see both large electrical powered steam cleaners, cold pressure washers and vacumm cleaners being used in the open air.

As you havent actually seen our guttervac you will not have the benifit of noting that the units switches are protected by sealed waterproof housings.
 

There is no law to state that 240v can't be used outside, not even H&S have the power to force anyone to use 110v equipment.

Firstly I would like to point out that 110v center tapped or below voltage power tools are not a legal requirement even on construction sites; The use of 110v center tapped and below equipment is an ACoP and best practice. The HSE will frown upon higher voltage powered tools being used, but cannot dictate the use of 110v due to EU directives.(if the UK HSE enforce the use of 110v they are in direct breach of those directives and the philosophy of an open market within Europe).

The HSE expects support from industry on the best practice of using 110v and below powered tools as they have been proven not to kill anyone who use them, this requirement (the use of 110v center tapped or below powered tools) should be identified within your company H&S policy and the Construction Phase HSE Plan,

240v and greater electrical v power and tools can be used on site, however strict control measures are required; the use of armoured cabling, shortest lead lengths as possible, RCB's/RCD's within the line, earthing, weather proofing, stringent inspections and useage, etc.. must be in place prior to use (ACoPs are available from the HSE).

110v center tapped power tools are more sturdier and have been designed and manufactured for construction, furthermore the use of these power tools will reduce loss or theft of their 240v counterparts, due to the fact you cannot use 110v at home.

Furthermore an electrical appliance register must be formed and developed to enter the electrical equipment/tools details and records of inspections on the site, all appliances must be tagged and Portable Appliance Tested (PAT) every 3 months unless specified as low risk; such as fax machines, kettles, photo copiers, etc.

Some electrical powered tools that are greater than 110v being generally used on construction sites; electrical hoists, Sky climbers, overhead gantry's, electrical welding equipment, specialist core drilling,radiography, etc.....

Going onto a site with 240v and then being thrown off by the site agent is not because its H&S Policy but in direct support of the directive and them being responsible companies.

As with most UK legislation they are Risk Assessment based.

Apart from your switches being sealed waterproof housings I am also aware that omnivac 240v systems are double insulated for safety and that omnivac take safety very seriously, I don't own an omnivac but I do my homework, maybe one day I will get the chance to see one?

What I am trying to ask suppliers is? If they could just let any buyer of 240v equipment aware of what they need to safely run your system outside, your vac is safe but is the extensions and trips (Rcd's) the end user adds (if at all) are safe.

Just imagine this sinario
A window cleaner or one of his customers are electrocuted while using your equipment, news papers aren't going to say that the vac was safe it was his extension lead that was faulty, they want the full glory and a picture of your vac would make good capturing headlines, and of course H&S will want to investigate.

If you were to make all your customers aware of the dangers of using under rated cables, plugs and sockets to extend your equipment, then you as a responsible supplier in my mind would deserve a big pat on the back.

You don't need to be aware of electrical regs to give this info but good advice for there safety is excellent advice and of course it doesn't add any extra costs to your product, but you could add the correct product as extra's for them to purchase.

Like I've said to you before, I have never and never will run your systems down because they are good products, well made, and well manufactured.

[Glyn H]

Hi Jeff
We both seem to jump to the wrong conclusions when we post to one another!
I will consider my replies to your posts more carfully in future and try to take the spirit of what you are saying on board.

We do tell prospective purchasers the pros and cons of 110 and 240 volt systems and in most cases advise the choice of a  110 volt system.
However some of the smaller businesses do not choose this option because added expense is required in the form of a powerfull generator.
 

[jeff1]

Hi Glyn 
I never try to knock a good product or a good company and your company and products in my mind are both well engineered for robustness and reliability and Yes I can tell even though I don't own a product of yours, this is not only from comments on the forums about them but I do take time to read specs that are posted on your web-site.

Its good to see you advise on the pro's and cons of both systems but either system will require a good generator? But again good advice is priceless, it brings your customers back.

For years I had the opportunity to use both 240v and 110v tools and from my own experience 110v tools or systems are build more robust than 240v systems, a good selling point.
A 110v transformer is rated at around 3Kv so well within the specs of your systems.
Again if a customer of yours was to use a 110v vac or a 240v vac and plugged into a customers mains, they would still need some good sound professional advice, in the form of correct extensions plugs and sockets, this in the form of a little leaflet or booklet would be very helpful from your company.

Thanks for listening.

[ftp]

Thanks for your advice Jeff, you've helped me out several times. 
I think Glyn is very intent on protecting his product and i don't blame him, so tends to get a bit fired up now and again. The problem of course is that the Omnivac although a great idea can so easily be copied with readily available products that are nearly identical. I would think some pole suppliers must have been a bit worried when Harris poles were discovered, when people made their own Bentley brushes etc. The whole trade is so basic that nearly everything has been adapted from other areas - even ro units were around before wfp.
 Of course all the diy products although good are unlikely to match the proper ones for performance or looks but they are never far behind.

[jeff1]

Your more than welcome, that's what were all here for.

If I was glyn I would probably do the same about protecting my products, an awful lot of money has been spent by his company to produce good products (and they are good Glyn )

I know this myself as many years ago an idea and design of my own that was published in an electronics magazine, can now be freely purchased at Halfords. (I was young and Stupid, now I'm old and stupid )

Some guy's fail to realise that the vast amount of time spent on one idea, can actually run into years, ok so that's lost money, but when it comes to putting an idea into design and production, tooling up etc, then the costs can mount into many thousands of pounds.

Take Alex gardiner for instance, he's getting the same treatment over the price of his gutter scoop? But the guy's on here who know good quality when they see it, have paid good money for a good product,The time he spent getting the design sorted with the fabricators and of course its not just time he spent but lots of money along the way, so that money has to be recouped, its good quality and good materials, just the same as glyn's products, so the cost will reflect this.

Were the first lot to come on and smash a supplier down for supplying us with crap or an inadequate product, I've seen it so many times on here.

Both Glyn and Alex have good names on all the forums, neither one of them, are here for the fast buck, there here for the long haul, they see us moaning about jobs we do, saying I wish a supplier would take this on board and produce so and so for us?

Now if you wanted to, I could go in my workshop and knock you one up in no time at half the price but its what we call in the trade as a bodge up, so god knows how long it will last, if you want it to last, then buy your product from Glyn or Alex but it will cost you more because they have the time and money to invest and they go to professionals to have it produced for us.

Sorry to go on but that's that's my twopence worth.