[Kevin R]

I did a gutter cleaning job today for a national building company. We were assigned a health and safety officer to oversea our works. He spent ages asking questions. Firstly I answered them but in the end I told him to read my risk assessment / method statement and go away, the annoying little man. what is the world coming to If a company can spare a man just to watch others work?

I then get in and another of my clients has sent me a pack of forms which need filling in if I wish to continue working for them!  I have to pass their supplier accreditation process.  They require as much information as my safe contractor assessors did. 

What is really annoying is all this stuff takes time, time that they don't wish to pay for.

I can understand having to supply RA / MS and safe systems of work for each job - but surely anything else is a paper chase and waste of time and effort. 

[Tosh]

It's annoying I know, but I guess it's just companies protecting themselves from 'blame claims'.

I do a building that has three seperate businesses in it; but the building has been sold onto another company who use a management company to look after various aspects of the infrastructure.

This management company has doubled the management fees for the businesses who let the property (which has upset them (we socialise with one of the business owners) and during their 'presentation' window cleaning was brought up.

The management company said that they would provide the window cleaner, but my customers were against this; said they wanted me; not an appointed window cleaner (and I believe I 'over priced' these jobs ); and want a reduction in their management fees.

The management company has said okay, but I've got to jump through a few hoops before hand; and it worries me that the management company will say, 'How much are you paying your window cleaners?  We can do it for half the price!

It is a pain!

[justme]

quite simple, as my instructor said on my iosh course, "gentlemen we are here because of one and one reason only, 'No Win, No Fee''

common sense no longer prevails, you have to have a paper trail so people do things as per company rules. when a h&s officer is watching is usually of a failed safety audit or worse still, an incident.

just remember tho...if you've got jump thru hoops so has your competition

[mark dew]

Yes the world has gone mad.
But where there is madness there is opportunity to earn better bucks than we did when we climbed a ladder with a mop and squeegee.

[paulscotney]

Yes I have a Class 1 hgv licence and still do the very odd sat or sun, it is pathetic. Rules like a 44 ton artic must have its hazards on whilst driving at 10mph around the yard, in SOME places. Do they employ blind and deaf workers?

[Kevin R]

Yes I have a Class 1 hgv licence and still do the very odd sat or sun, it is pathetic. Rules like a 44 ton artic must have its hazards on whilst driving at 10mph around the yard, in SOME places. Do they employ blind and deaf workers?

Up until this year I did the same (part time hgv 1) and at the yard even the office workers had to walk acroos the yard to get in and out. They had to wear high vis and steelies just to get to the office!!!!

[Neil271052]

quite simple, as my instructor said on my iosh course, "gentlemen we are here because of one and one reason only, 'No Win, No Fee''

common sense no longer prevails, you have to have a paper trail so people do things as per company rules. when a h&s officer is watching is usually of a failed safety audit or worse still, an incident.

just remember tho...if you've got jump thru hoops so has your competition

H&S is  a good idea in principal which has usual has gone mad and over the top IMO  (rather like the Labour party  )

When I did a H&S course a couple of years back the very earnest instructor said that if you ever were likely to come into contact with bird poo you should be wearing a full face respirator!  :

Unfortunately typical of modern Britain today with no win no fee claimants everywhere. 

[Robert Parry]

Kevin,

You may think that this is a pain, and I realise a lot of this is duplicated amongst your various clients, but it is a sad fact that window cleaning is a very dangerous occupation, justme is also correct that if you have to tick all your boxes, so does your competition!

Your thinking that you have to complete all this "extra work" for nothing is also quite wrong, surely this extra time, expense etc. should already be factored in to your pricing structure.

The present situation where some one can join a forum such as this and obtain copies of R/A, H & S Policies etc, is laughable, what most seem to forget is that in the case of something going wrong, it would not be sufficient just to show the EHO or H & S Executive a couple of bits of paper and say "see we do all this", they must be able to prove that they have documented training, procedures, supervision etc.

With the recent changes in legislation, it is becoming vital to show due care and dilligence, and slowly but surely our clients are becoming more aware of these facts, this will not only minimise the risks within our industry, but will also hopefully be the beginning of the end for the cowboy element within the entire cleaning industry.

Regards,

Rob

[Kevin R]

Hi Rob,

 I do completely agree with you on most of those very valid points. But how can you price in the fact that a little man will annoy you and your staff and make the job take much longer than it should with his constant banter. I believe he is actually making the job less safe as its better to concentrate on the job in hand and not him.

I do factor in the costs of health and safety training and documentation preparation times etc, but with some of our larger clients it seems to be more and more paperwork is required every time we do a job, old or new.

I think it is because some of the larger companies have health and safety employees who have to prove their existence by inventing new paperwork, supplier evaluations etc.

I do understand that our competition has to go through the same, but if anything service prices are falling not improving are the overheads are increasing.

I do believe that our larger clients now demand more for the £ than our smaller clients. 

[AuRavelling79]

I do a factory's windows and head office sent me an "invitation" to go on their ceramics industry contractor's course which would involve me in an overnight stay and to pay them £500, yes £500 for the privilege.

I went to the factory manager who phoned up this H&S jobsworth and persuaded him that he would arrange for on site local training for me.

This is how it went.

Factory manager. "Wear a hi-vis vest everywhere, ok?"
Me. "Yes, Guv."

F/M "Watch out for fork lift trucks and lorries, ok?
Me. "Yes Guv."

F/M "Any risks you can think of?"
Me. "Wet floors, hoses, overhead power lines."
F/M "How you gonna manage those risks?
Me. "Signs and careful work practices."
F/M "Good man."

F/M "You insured for public liability?
Me. "£1 million"
F/M "Should be £5 million but I can sign that off."
Me. "Thanks Guv."

F/M "Follow me to the works canteen, I'm buying you breakfast and you can sign the forms saying you've been trained."
Me. "Yes Guv."

My kind of guy - backsides covered in  ten minutes flat.

[Wayne Thomas]

They couldn't care less about you. So long as they've covered themselves regarding H&S that's all half of them are bothered about.