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absolutecleaning

  • Posts: 465
Coke stain on wool
« on: February 27, 2008, 02:56:03 pm »
Whats the best bet please folks?

The spillage occured a couple of months ago and the carpet is either wool or high percentage of.

Will neutral pro spotter work - it seemed to get out what I thought was cola the other day?

Cheers

Si

*paul_moss

  • Posts: 2961
Re: Coke stain on wool
« Reply #1 on: February 27, 2008, 03:04:14 pm »
Si an 80% chance its set in, you may take some residue out and slightly remove some of the dye but not all will come out.
 It is then down to speacilaist reducers/oxidisers to render the stain invisible.
Paul Moss  MBICSc
www.mosscleaning.co.uk
REMOVED FOR POSTING OFFENSIVE MATERIAL

Gerry Styles

  • Posts: 558
Re: Coke stain on wool
« Reply #2 on: February 27, 2008, 03:05:38 pm »
Try Stain Pro as a pre spray then rinse extract with Fibre and Fabric Rinse. That should work. You could use Red Rx with a damp terry towel and iron after the above. I would use Nuetral Pro Spotter as a last resort if the stain persists
Premier Klean Limited

absolutecleaning

  • Posts: 465
Re: Coke stain on wool
« Reply #3 on: February 27, 2008, 03:24:12 pm »
Cheers

I'm confused though Gerry.  I thought neutral pro spotter (being almost neutral ph and woolsafe) would be the first thing to try rather than stain pro or red rx.  Am I missing something.

Paul - when you say oxidisers are they the products which effectively bleach the carpet - it is green so would this work? 

*paul_moss

  • Posts: 2961
Re: Coke stain on wool
« Reply #4 on: February 27, 2008, 03:45:16 pm »
Hi Si
With this you have to step out side the wool safe boundries ;)

Reducing & Oxidising is expalined best by Geoff Cross over in USA.

If you are not versed in this then dont try it straight away on customers carpets,get some swatches from a carpet shop,stain them,then play with them and hone your skills

Here goes

The advanced stain removal expert should be well-versed in the use of bleaches.

Cleaning can be defined as removing unwanted foreign substances.

But stain removal is often accomplished by altering the color of the stain, rendering it invisible, instead of removing it. That's where bleaches come into play.

You could compare bleaching action to rust removal - at least the final result. If you apply a strong acid to a rust stain, the rust remains. It's the color of the rust that is made invisible.

With bleaching stains in textiles, you are doing the same thing: Making them invisible.

Categories of bleaches

For this carpet and furniture cleaning discussion, there are two types of bleaches that are safe to use without excess fear of causing damage to fibers and colors. These are:

Oxidizing bleaches (such as hydrogen peroxide and sodium percarbonate)
Reducing bleaches (such as sodium bisulfite, metabisulfite and hydrosulfite). 
Household chlorine bleach (sodium hypochlorite) is rarely recommended for use for on-location or in-house carpet or furniture cleaning. It is very aggressive and unpredictable, although it is used by some carpet and furniture cleaning professionals.

So for the practical information presented here, remember that you can use a variety of oxidizers and reducers, but become completely familiar with the dangers of chlorine should you decide to use it.

How bleaches work

Oxidizing and reducing bleaches should be used after you attempt regular cleaning and spot removal steps.

Sometimes they are needed to remove heavy or very noticeable stains, and repeated efforts are necessary.

Oxidizers work by adding oxygen to the stain and fabric. By adding the oxygen molecules to the stained area, you alter the appearance of the stain.

Remember: Stains are colors, and to have a color you have to have light and reflection. By altering the color molecule with added oxygen, you change the color appearance, rendering it invisible.

Reducers give you the same final result, but with a different path of delivery. They remove oxygen molecules from the textile and stain, again altering the color molecule that creates the stain's color.

Oxidizers work best on organic stains (natural). To remember this, repeat to yourself "oxidize the organics" until it's part of your cleaning terminology.
Reducing agents work best on synthetic stains (manmade). To remember this, repeat to yourself "reduce what's not real" until it's part of your cleaning terminology.

This doesn't mean you can't cross over the line. Often, oxidizers will remove the last vestiges of a synthetic stain, and vice versa.

Putting them to work

Stain identification is job #1.

Since each type of bleach has an affinity for either natural or synthetic stains, you need to make the proper match.

Purchase your bleaches from a qualified formulator. These bleaches typically have a "lubricator" in them, a chemical to speed penetration of the bleach into the fiber. Surfactancy is common in formulated products. Plus, an MSDS is very important to have on hand.

Don't worry at this point about how much to use, or the dilution. Those directions will come from your chemical supplier.

Adding a small amount of alkaline (such as ammonia) to an oxidizer makes it work faster. Alkalines accelerate oxidizing bleaches.

Adding a small amount of acid (such as acetic acid, better known as vinegar) to a reducing agent makes it work faster. Acids accelerate reducing agents.

Remember that natural fibers like wool or cotton are sensitive to many types of chemistry. Using sodium percarbonate (an oxidizer) with its natural high alkalinity is not recommended on some of these fiber types. Same with stain resistant nylon fibers. Liquid peroxide with a more neutral pH is better.

Acceleration, delivery and safety

As with most classes of cleaning chemistry, adding heat makes both classes of bleaches work faster. But with active chemicals, the reaction speeds up, so watch that reaction carefully to avoid unwanted color loss (from the textile's original color).

Apply your bleach from a flip-top bottle, spray bottle or your preferred method of delivery.

Caution: If you enclose an oxidizer after mixing with an alkaline, the chemical will off-gas and eventually find its way out of the bottle, perhaps via explosion. It won't be pretty.

You can let the bleach work on the fabric for several minutes up to several hours, or you can use a damp towel and an iron to accelerate reaction. A safer heating method is steam from a portable steamer.

Another way to accelerate an oxidizer is to use an ultraviolet light (black light). This type of light reacts with the chemical and speeds the bleaching. It is safer to use light acceleration than heat acceleration.

After applying the bleach, warming or heating the stained area, keep an eye on the reaction. Some of the stain may be transferred into the towel, which may be part of the physical removal but not the ultimate action you are looking for.

To stop the bleaching action if you see unwanted results, you can flush the chemical out of the fabric. But to quickly  stop an oxidizer, add a reducer and then flush, and vice versa to stop a reducing bleach action.

Oxidizers are more "dangerous" to original colors, especially using an iron.

Reducers are less aggressive to natural colors, but tend to be much faster than oxidizers in the stain removal process.

Remember: What you are trying to achieve is the alteration of the color molecule. Even if you can't alter the color so it is completely invisible, often the remnants of the stain are removable with continued cleaning.

Paul Moss  MBICSc
www.mosscleaning.co.uk
REMOVED FOR POSTING OFFENSIVE MATERIAL

absolutecleaning

  • Posts: 465
Re: Coke stain on wool
« Reply #5 on: February 27, 2008, 04:00:00 pm »
Bookmarked that for later when I have swatches, time & more brain cells avaiable!

Thanks

absolutecleaning

  • Posts: 465
Re: Coke stain on wool
« Reply #6 on: February 27, 2008, 04:15:13 pm »
On the woolsafe front:

It is difficult as a beginner to have the confidence to use products not bearing that mark as it feels safer to use those that are when there is a possibility that they may work.  Thats why I was suprised when Gerry said neutral pro spotter as last resort.

Is is just a case of working out the ph levels and staying within the safe limits or is there more to consider than that - colour, age etc?

Si

gwrightson

  • Posts: 3617
Re: Coke stain on wool
« Reply #7 on: February 27, 2008, 05:33:43 pm »
cant see what the fuss is about, so what if you do use a product that is not safe on wool? surly providing you ok it with the custy, and explain the possible consequences cant see any thing to worry about.
after all would the customer prefer a dark coke stain or a lightened area of carpet, and the worst scenario a slightly damadged carpet. imo
geoff
who ever said dont knock before u try ,i never tried dog crap but i know i wouldnt like  haha

Doctor Carpet (Ret'd)

  • Posts: 2024
Re: Coke stain on wool
« Reply #8 on: February 27, 2008, 05:54:07 pm »
Paul

Thank you so much for that full answer. I had a bad tea stain yesterday on wool with basically no improvement ( and then again another one today). I knew that there was a principle around for bleaching carpets and I was going to come on the forum and ask about it.

I know Prochem do two chemicals that you mix together but I have never used for such purposes. My other observation is you mention these oxidisers and reducers but where do you get them from? Is is a chemist, our usual chemical suppliers, hairdressers or somewhere else? Also do they tend to come under common branded names?

I'm going to the CCDO so if you're not able to answer these questions now then perhaps we can have a natter (or even a demonstration) at the CCDO?

Thanks again for the answer I shall be studying it more fully and also going to my friendly carpet shop for yet more carpet samples to practise on.

Roger
Diplomacy: the art of letting other people have your way

*paul_moss

  • Posts: 2961
Re: Coke stain on wool
« Reply #9 on: February 27, 2008, 08:42:30 pm »
Roger the main 2 I use are Hydrogen peroxide ( buy it from Boots at 6%) or Sodium metaibisulphide ( most home brew/health type shops sell it).
If you at the CCDO on Sunday night I will talk it through with you.

Si wool safe products and procedures are important for wool and especially good quality wool ( but for cleaning purposes only) once dye staining or any major staining takes place then a different  senario takes president. ;)
Paul Moss  MBICSc
www.mosscleaning.co.uk
REMOVED FOR POSTING OFFENSIVE MATERIAL

Gerry Styles

  • Posts: 558
Re: Coke stain on wool
« Reply #10 on: February 27, 2008, 10:53:43 pm »
Si

sorry if I confused you. I was following the guidance from the Prochem Manual

Gerry
Premier Klean Limited

Ian Gourlay

  • Posts: 5748
Re: Coke stain on wool
« Reply #11 on: February 29, 2008, 03:46:45 am »
Try Stain Pro as a pre spray then rinse extract with Fibre and Fabric Rinse. That should work. You could use Red Rx with a damp terry towel and iron after the above. I would use Nuetral Pro Spotter as a last resort if the stain persists

After you have done that you move on to Pauls procedure.  When carpet is dry.

Hydrogen Peroxide is slow to see results, it make take up to 12 minutes to see a reaction , you may need several applications. if you add ammonia it may make an unpleasant gas smell.

The one i did this week I did the Prochem Method and then returned the next day when carpet was dry to use the Hydrogen Peroxide.

It can take up to 24hrs before the full effect is achievied.


absolutecleaning

  • Posts: 465
Re: Coke stain on wool
« Reply #12 on: February 29, 2008, 06:57:28 am »
Gerry - no worries.

I am not sure if this lady will want to pay for a couple of visits as she wasnt overly fussed when I said it wouldnt necessarily come out.

At least I can explain and give her the option now though.

Thanks

Ian Gourlay

  • Posts: 5748
Re: Coke stain on wool
« Reply #13 on: February 29, 2008, 03:43:56 pm »
You could try drying it with hair drier and doing it in one hit

absolutecleaning

  • Posts: 465
Re: Coke stain on wool
« Reply #14 on: February 29, 2008, 04:35:00 pm »
Went down the stain pro route and it has worked very well here - thanks.

Another question though - I treated the spots with the stain pro and then wondered what to do about cleaning the rest of the carpet.

I sprayed with pre spray gold, left to dwell but did not agitate (not wanting to rub the spots) and then rinsed with fabric and fibre.

Normally use microsplitters but assume I couldnt here as they would have required agitation.

Did I use the best method here?