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Spursboy1972

  • Posts: 679
Buying a Business
« on: November 23, 2007, 01:49:34 pm »
My father has a contract cleaning company that has been established since 1977.
He is now 65 and going to retire. I have the option to possibly buy the business from him. However I am after some idea of what it might be worth if a 3rd party were to buy it.

His last financial years turnover was 175k. There is no overdraft and no finance outstanding on anything. All his bills are up to date too. Currently there are no bad debts either.

So can someone give me some ideas please on what this may be worth?

Thanks

TOny
Clear Vision~"The Difference is Clear"

Southampton- Hampshire

*Chris Browne

  • Posts: 863
Re: Buying a Business
« Reply #1 on: November 23, 2007, 03:03:14 pm »
Hi Tony,

Is that profit? or before profit? its just that some people see turnover as 2 different things

Chris

steve doyle

  • Posts: 287
Re: Buying a Business
« Reply #2 on: November 23, 2007, 04:43:27 pm »
forget turnover its unimportant at this stage,



how much profit does it make?

Spursboy1972

  • Posts: 679
Re: Buying a Business
« Reply #3 on: November 23, 2007, 05:29:44 pm »
Profit is a hard one as he is a sole trader. However including his salary and other bits I suppose its about 40k. He pays his own tax and NI from his salary.
Clear Vision~"The Difference is Clear"

Southampton- Hampshire

newbroom

  • Posts: 307
Re: Buying a Business
« Reply #4 on: November 23, 2007, 07:07:15 pm »
Perhaps i'm being naive hear but why would your father sell it to you surely you would inherit the business

The Great One

  • Posts: 12722
Re: Buying a Business
« Reply #5 on: November 23, 2007, 07:38:23 pm »
Why?

He is retiring, not dying!

Selling the business will be extra for his retirement and also if he hands the business over for nothing it won't have any value for you, if you invest in the business (you buy it) you are more likely to make a go of it.

Regards

Martin 8)

Re: Buying a Business
« Reply #6 on: November 23, 2007, 07:56:02 pm »

BDCS

  • Posts: 4777
Re: Buying a Business
« Reply #7 on: November 23, 2007, 09:47:32 pm »
You really need to get good advice as there are inheritance tax implications and you need an expert ! I doubt if anyone here would be able to give you educated advice as we're humble cleaners !!!

steve doyle

  • Posts: 287
Re: Buying a Business
« Reply #8 on: November 23, 2007, 10:39:44 pm »
i agree with BDCS,Its a very good point,

It may be better to retain a percentage, sell at a nominal value or make it a gift or any other combination of a lot of factors were not likely to be aware of in order to reduce tax and other liabilities,

for example i know of someone selling land, they are selling it in smaller parcels over several years to reduce the tax they will pay on it (legally!) rather than receiving a lump sum and paying high capital gains on it.


So while we could offer a guesstimate (40-50+ass) it would be better to see a decent solicitor/accountant to get accurate advise on the best way to transfer the business, the value can then be better evaluated when you know the boundaries in which it needs to be  ;)

Spursboy1972

  • Posts: 679
Re: Buying a Business
« Reply #9 on: November 24, 2007, 10:00:31 am »
I am sure that seeing an accountant or his accountant is prob the way forward.

I and he were after rough ideas of anybody's experiences.

One other thing to clear up and that is if I buy it it wont be in a lump sum. It will be at say 1k per month for so long. I will also prob look to take it ltd and have him as a director or similar. Reasons for this are that it does not impact on my own window cleaning business esp with respect to VAT implications. Also he retains a stake and can become a paid employee. That way he still gets a benefit form the business he worked hard for for 30 years. Or is that be3ing too soft?

Also with regards to inheritance or gifts that would be very straight forward if I was an only child but unfortunately there are 5 of us!!! >:(

Anyway any more input greatly appreciated and thanks for all input so far.
Clear Vision~"The Difference is Clear"

Southampton- Hampshire

steve doyle

  • Posts: 287
Re: Buying a Business
« Reply #10 on: November 25, 2007, 01:47:08 am »
Sounds like your om the right track,

have a look at some websites to get an idea of business prices, but they do vary somewhat so its abit confusing for eg ive seen,

100k profit, asking 125k
and
 100k profit, asking 400k??

you could also ask a buisiness agent for an idea or your dads accountant would be able to value it.

personally i think 1 to 2 years profit plus assets is somewhere in the ball park but its only a guess.

hth

steve

Art

  • Posts: 3688
Re: Buying a Business
« Reply #11 on: November 25, 2007, 07:28:49 am »
Tony, you might want to read this:

CGT - selling business assets after 5 April 2008 
 The present position.

If you sell a business asset before 6 April 2008, that you have owned for more than 2 years and which qualified as a business asset throughout your ownership, the maximum tax you would pay on the sale as a higher rate tax payer is 10% of the chargeable gain.

The changed position from 6 April 2008

Under proposed changes to CGT if you sold the same asset after 5 April 2008 you would pay tax at a flat rate of 18%. (This flat rate will apply to all taxpayers whatever your earnings position for income tax.) The previous relief given for indexation of gains to 5 April 1998 and taper relief from that date, will cease to apply as from 6 April 2008. Thus, on the face of it, the increase in tax is 80%

The loss of indexation (inflation relief) which is still available on assets owned prior to 5 April 1998, will mean that the effective increase will be more than 80% and in some cases a lot more - particularly where assets were held at 31 March 1982 or before. See comments on non-business assets below.

You may have noticed in the national press the active lobbying by the CBI and other employer organisations to challenge this increase in tax, particularly to support the owners of small businesses who are now faced with a potential 80% increase in the tax they pay. When these organisations met with the Chancellor last month, he reaffirmed his intention to follow through with the changes to CGT. (See STOP PRESS announcement in the introduction for news about possible retirement relief provisions which may take some of the CGT sting out of 'retirement' business sales after 5 April 2008, particularly for small business owners.)

For the sake of clarity we have listed below assets that are presently defined as business assets, the list is not exhaustive but covers the main items:

Shareholdings in privately owned trading companies (including shares listed on AIM).
The goodwill associated with a businesses run by a sole trader or partnership.
Residential property let on a 'furnished holiday lets' basis.
Commercial property let to, or otherwise used by, privately owned trading organisations, including your own business.
We would strongly recommend that all clients holding business assets, especially those considering a disposal, contact us immediately to discuss the possibility of a formal review of their CGT position. It is likely that you will pay additional tax if you dispose of your business assets after 5 April 2008. There are a number of strategies that we can discuss. We only have until the end of the current tax year to implement appropriate changes - the window of opportunity will almost definitely close at midnight on 5 April 2008.

We should also stress that our comments, made in both the CGT articles today, are based on 'proposed' changes to the legislation announced on 9 October. Until we see the published, and enacted legislation any advice that we give to clients at this point will need to be varied as, and if, the situation changes.