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dragonet

  • Posts: 23
I just read this article in the s*n newspaper though you might like a read.

WINDOW CLEANERS AT TOP RISK

window cleaners have the most dangerous job in Britian according to a new league table.
   They have more chance of being killed or injured than firemen or even soldiers.
   other workers at risk include roofers, fishermen and publicans.
   The safest jobs are held by vicars, accountants, bank managers and office staff.
   the table was drawn up by churchill insurers to set prices for insurance cover at work.
  Company spokesman Greg Dawson said "Window cleaners work at height and need incredible concentration. They are like circus performers without the safety net."

Top ten riskiest jobs:
1 window cleaner
2 Soldier
3 Fireman
4 offshore fisherman
5 Pilot
6 Police officer
7 Roofer
8 Scaffolder
9 Tree surgeon
10 Circus performer


I think I will show my customers these stats when I put the prices up  to Pilots wages ;D
The Clean Cut Company
Wales

tightswerve

  • Posts: 51
Re: Its official, window cleaning is the most dangerous job in Britian
« Reply #1 on: October 16, 2004, 05:17:25 pm »
i think i will stick to window cleaning I'm too old 4 most of those jobs and i don't fancy lion tamer!

 ;)
Steve Wright

reah

Re: Its official, window cleaning is the most dangerous job in Britian
« Reply #2 on: October 16, 2004, 07:54:16 pm »
anyone know where i can get a safteynet prefrable unused. maybe next time the circus comes to town i will apply for the job being fired out of a canon.

tightswerve

  • Posts: 51
Re: Its official, window cleaning is the most dangerous job in Britian
« Reply #3 on: October 16, 2004, 08:13:21 pm »
how many times do u think i should'nt be up this high?

or 'bloody hell i'm hanging on to dear life 4 the sake of a tenner...! :o

Steve Wright

heritage lee

  • Posts: 93
Re: Its official, window cleaning is the most dangerous job in Britian
« Reply #4 on: October 17, 2004, 03:23:55 am »
im a doorman at weekends and tha is Dangerous iv had it al gun the lot i have 2 were a vest on the door but when im up at a window

lee

Ian_Giles

  • Posts: 2986
Re: Its official, window cleaning is the most dangerous job in Britian
« Reply #5 on: October 17, 2004, 09:11:56 am »
always knew it was one of the riskiest occupations :'(
Though I would rather be up a ladder than out in Iraq :o

Not that I climb ladders anymore ;D (well, ok, rarely and only then for access) I am now a poleman with my feet firmly planted on the ground.........though I suppose I could get entangled in my hose, trip and stagger into the path of a speeding bus ::)
Or into a patch of really nasty stinging nettles ;D They really hurt at this time of the year!! :'(

Ian
Ian. ISM CLEANING SERVICES

dave_carroll

  • Posts: 65
Re: Its official, window cleaning is the most dangerous job in Britian
« Reply #6 on: October 17, 2004, 05:10:04 pm »
REAH,
          don't know if it would be possible to fire you from a canon.
         they need people of the right calibre  ;).




         i'll get me coat

                                  Dave
swamps

Ian_Giles

  • Posts: 2986
Re: Its official, window cleaning is the most dangerous job in Britian New
« Reply #7 on: October 17, 2004, 08:42:42 pm »
mmm, A canon shot wouldn't worry me, but having someone  tamp me down tight with a plunger might :o

Ian
Ian. ISM CLEANING SERVICES

Terry_Burrows

  • Posts: 1643
Re: Its official, window cleaning is the most dangerous job in Britian
« Reply #8 on: October 18, 2004, 11:11:41 am »
 ;)yes this has sparked things off,on wednesday I will be on BBC essex radio Talking about this,and this weekend 24 the Independant news paper will have a feature on yours truly,in the pull out section ;)window cleaning is about to get more profile,I have just filmed A christmas message,this will go out on sky TV across 9 channels starting from,end of november,there is more,but I cannot say at this point :-X,I feel one day the training of window cleaners may be standerd practice,and if you dont train,you will not get insured,I think this may be only a matter of time,

your thoughts please on this ,is it a good thing ??? or not sure,

I know what I think ;)
WWW.FASTESTWINDOWCLEANER.CO.UK
GUINNESS WORLD RECORD HOLDER
BURNING RUBBER FASTER!
NATIONAL FEDERATION OF MASTER WINDOW CLEANERS.

Craig_Mawlam

Re: Its official, window cleaning is the most dangerous job in Britian
« Reply #9 on: October 18, 2004, 03:40:18 pm »
There is another point worth making here, and that is that all of the resources already exist in order to argue the point that actually window cleaning can be a very safe occupation.

There is a safer alternative to ladders, which are after all the No1 cause/effect of the high statistics.

Training is available for all aspects of the Window Cleaning industry, cradle, abseil, WFP etc, etc.

There is a trade association that could unify these resources and adopt policies that could be presented to insurers that would prove that this could be a professional industry worthy of sensible premiums in return for a more professional approach to our trade. Other industries have pulled themselves together to become more professional, perhaps now is the right time for the Window Cleaning Industry. Perhaps now is the time to resign petty personal politics to the past. As ever there would be those dragged kicking and screaming as they resist change, but the alternative is to accept higher and higher insurance premiums in an industry where the cheapest man gets the job even if he is a cowboy.

If you go it alone and set your own standards too high you run the risk of being too professional in an unprofessional industry.

Rgds
Craig Mawlam despair

telboy

Re: Its official, window cleaning is the most dangerous job in Britian
« Reply #10 on: October 18, 2004, 04:19:17 pm »
THE INSURANCE COMPANYS ARE RUBBING THERE HANDS NOW
HIGHER PREMIUMS ARE ON THE WAY  ??? ???


 

Mike_Boxall

  • Posts: 1394
Re: Its official, window cleaning is the most dangerous job in Britian
« Reply #11 on: October 18, 2004, 06:44:02 pm »
It's not good publicity for anyone is it!

Just out of interest here, am I right in thinking that Federation Members actually get a 'subsidised' insurance policy or is just one they've 'negotiated' for the members?

Does this particular insurance company actually take into account what proportion of work is ladder work as opposed to WFP? Does it actually distinguish between the two on the proposal form and is this reflected in the premium?

Would 2 sole-traders end up paying the same premuim regardless of their type of work and / or training, for example.

Regards

Mike

WavieDavie

  • Posts: 951
Re: Its official, window cleaning is the most dangerous job in Britian
« Reply #12 on: October 18, 2004, 08:10:29 pm »
am I right in thinking that Federation Members actually get a 'subsidised' insurance policy or is just one they've 'negotiated' for the members?

I'm still with Darwin Clayton, who used to be the Fed's preferred insurer. Willis, the new flavour of the month, don't do Employer's Liability - in spite of the Fed saying that they were changing to give us a better deal, after all the trumpet blowing the PR Dept fell down badly on that one. I just assumed, after hunting around, that we must have been getting a Group Policy deal because it was better than anything I could find elsewhere. I also assumed, rightly or wrongly, that a proportion of the premiums would end up back at the Fed as a commission. That's the way of the world, and didn't bother me in the slightest.

Does this particular insurance company actually take into account what proportion of work is ladder work as opposed to WFP? Does it actually distinguish between the two on the proposal form and is this reflected in the premium?

On the proposal form, they ask for the wage ratios between six classifications under "Window and High Level Cleaning":- Reach+Wash or similar system at ground level; All other GL window cleaning (Ex use of ladders) ground level jump-ups or extension pole work and shopfronts I presume; Above GL up to 10m; Abseiling, rope access & use of cradles; All other window cleaning above 10m; Other - Specify.

Originally they had come back to me at renewal to say that, based on last year's information, they could no longer insure me with the same company, but they would send me out another proposal form and they would hunt around. In the mean time, prices I'd received from other companies were getting really scarey, and I'd already decided to cut back on harness work at 10m and above, because the premiums were going to be more than the value of the work at that height! I'd filled in %'s for the first three sections, and because my ladderwork up to 10m was less than 50% of the business, (VERY important, I can't stress enough how this affected my proposal for insurance!) I could continue to be insured by last year's insurers.

Would 2 sole-traders end up paying the same premuim regardless of their type of work and / or training, for example.
Based on the type of work - probably differing premiums going by my experience. Training wasn't mentioned, but going by recent comments I'm sure that'll come in soon.
I recall that this was the first time I had to send copies of H&S policy, Method Statements, etc to show I knew what I was doing.

Hope this helps.
You're a Scottish window-cleaner? Licensed or not, get yourself along to www.slwcn.org right now !

Davie Park
Dalzell Window Cleaning Service - Edinburgh www.windowscleaner.co.uk

Mike_Boxall

  • Posts: 1394
Re: Its official, window cleaning is the most dangerous job in Britian
« Reply #13 on: October 19, 2004, 09:11:58 am »
Thanks for that info Davie!

It would be a rather significant 'oversight' if the Fed's recommended insurer didn't do Employer's Liability - are you sure about that?

Has anyone seen a proposal form yet that asks about training?

Regards

Mike

gibbouk

  • Posts: 171
Re: Its official, window cleaning is the most dangerous job in Britian
« Reply #14 on: October 19, 2004, 01:43:37 pm »
who are these fools who compile these lists. a mate of mine is just back from Iraq. he wants to swap jobs. i would say yes as obviously my job is more dangerous than his. but i feel that if i was going to change, i would fancy the circus performer more.

just a little info to rubbish this table even further
british military deaths in Iraq since march 2003 67 people
figures from the HSE information sheet misc 613
"between 2 and 7 die from falls while window cleaning"

WavieDavie

  • Posts: 951
Re: Its official, window cleaning is the most dangerous job in Britian
« Reply #15 on: October 19, 2004, 03:07:41 pm »
It would be a rather significant 'oversight' if the Fed's recommended insurer didn't do Employer's Liability - are you sure about that?

See . . .  http://www.nfmwgc.com/homepgs/insurance_scheme.htm

If you search on the Fed site for employers OR employer's liability, it comes back to say the result is blank.
You're a Scottish window-cleaner? Licensed or not, get yourself along to www.slwcn.org right now !

Davie Park
Dalzell Window Cleaning Service - Edinburgh www.windowscleaner.co.uk

reah

Re: Its official, window cleaning is the most dangerous job in Britian
« Reply #16 on: October 19, 2004, 05:29:01 pm »
window cleaners untill i decided to become one always conjured up the image of a jack the lad type, but now meeting a few more cleaners about we seem to have come from all walks of life.I was a senior manager for a large retail unit i have managed matalan stores and lastly for bhs. There are a few in my area that im sure are cowboys dare i say it, but its sites like this that shows there are also caring individuals who want to offer the householder the best job possible.I spent over two months unpaid cleaning windows for nothing but gained invaluable training which brings me to the point that something has to be done to show we are realy proffesionals.I now the fed is a excellent source of information as is this site.I surppose we need to keep showing the public this is a serious career and hope the futre is bright.