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spotless2000

  • Posts: 442
Just received a copy of 'Voice of Business', publication from the Federation of Small Businesses (FSB).

There is an article - Hospipe Ban Rules Updated, explaining the proposals to extend the current hospipe ban rules.

The article refers you to this website :-

http://www.defra.gov.uk/corporate/consult/water-restrictions/consultation.pdf

Page 31  5.3.1 (iii) Filling of storage tanks and Question 11 on page 32 may be of interest. :-\

Steve

KJG

  • Posts: 293
Take no notice :-X I'm lucky enough to not be on a water meter and thinking about flogging the stuff to less fortunate wfp'ers ;D

v) Use of hosepipes, within the domestic sector, to operate water
slides, to clean patios, drives and other hard standings, and to clean
windows and building exteriors
We propose to bring all these uses within the scope of the controls. The quantity
of water drawn through a hosepipe in an hour can be the equivalent of the
domestic needs of a family of four for a day. We see no justification for allowing
the existing situation to continue where control over hosepipe use for car washing
and garden watering is available whilst other discretionary uses remain
uncontrolled. Washing of hard surfaces, windows and building exteriors by hand
would not be affected. An exclusion in respect of safety and hygiene would be
provided in respect of the cleaning of hard surfaces.

Above pasted from the document
This is only a consultation document but none the less it would appear that we are in their cross hairs. My reading of the above is that upstairs would be legal on safety grounds, but downstairs would have to be done trad.

It's only a consultation doc but you are not going to wriggle out of it. That is is it's purpose. The householder will be responsible not you.

If you could prove that your water was not orginally drawn from a hosepipe you miight be okay but if there was national publicity you would be viewed with about as much sympathy as a drunken driver.


Londoner

I would interpret that as meaning using a hosepipe to clean windows directly. If you are using "your own" water you are not coming under their regulations.

However, it may lead to awkward questions about where you got your water from.

*foxman

  • Posts: 250
I think your missing the important part which will effect everyone.....

(iii) Filling of storage tanks for use for a proscribed purpose anywhere
Allowing the filling of storage tanks from the mains supply for subsequent use for
a proscribed purpose would represent a failure to make the powers effective.
That failure would be compounded if no provision were made to prevent water
drawn from the mains supply being used in an area where no use restrictions
were in force. We propose therefore to make the filling of storage tanks, in
excess of a specified capacity, for subsequent use for a proscribed purpose
anywhere a use which can be prohibited.


Even selling water in a non ban area will be addressed

AuRavelling79

  • Posts: 25388
Lots to read - but is this drought situations, not hosepipe bans?

Also the storage tanks below a certain capacity would remain ok?


Thoughts for we lower quantity users

So Tosh with 2 x 210L water butts counts as? 420L? or the fact that he has two means each one gets under the limit?

Also -

Surely a water butt "might" have been replenished with rain-water during that shower last month?  ;D
It's a game of three halves!

*foxman

  • Posts: 250
Hosepipe ban as well, the quantity of water being used is the main issue.

(v) Use of hosepipes, within the domestic sector, to operate water
slides, to clean patios, drives and other hard standings, and to clean
windows and building exteriors
We propose to bring all these uses within the scope of the controls. The quantity
of water drawn through a hosepipe in an hour can be the equivalent of the
domestic needs of a family of four for a day. We see no justification for allowing
the existing situation to continue where control over hosepipe use for car washing
and garden watering is available whilst other discretionary uses remain
uncontrolled. Washing of hard surfaces, windows and building exteriors by hand
would not be affected. An exclusion in respect of safety and hygiene would be
provided in respect of the cleaning of hard surfaces.


They are saying why ban washing the car and watering the garden when there are other ways water is being wasted.

EasyClean

  • Posts: 558
They can't stop us using 'grey' water!
Losing a customer is like waiting for the next bus, another one will come along shortly!

supernova77

  • Posts: 3547
Yawn!

I remember all this kind of hype last year  :-\

Andy

Londoner

Actually, the most stupid aspect of the hosepipe ban last year was that I couldn't wash my own car but I could go down the road and pay someone else at the hand car wash to do the same thing.
They couldn't stop them working, Human rights etc so surely that would apply to us as well.

They can stop them working(car valeters). No washing private cars at all. They use the example of a government minister, he couldn't have his car washed, but a taxi driver (public transport) could. The onus is on the car owner , or in our case the house dweller.

They've got us.

If you said you were using grey water that would be a way out, but a lot of householders would turn you away if the climate (opinion of neighbours) was ugly.

You'd only need a couple of tv ads portraying us as villians and we would be viliefied.

Trevor Knight

  • Posts: 1825
The APWC has been invited to send in any issues relating to the window cleaning industry as part of their consultation document.

Any concerns please let us know as we are preparing a reply.

Regards,

Trevor
Covering Hampshire, Dorset, Surrey, Berkshire

matt

trevor, it would be a good idea for " industry spokespeople" to get together and get a statement out together, as it seems "others" have allready spoken to the people that matter

this issue is slightly bigger than the hosepipe ban

Trevor Knight

  • Posts: 1825
Totally agree Matt, we should all get together.

Unfortunately it becomes very childish at times as certain organisations refuse to talk to us as they feel we are a threat and that they wish to be seen as the one's doing the good stuff, so to say.

If anyone has any particular issues they wish us to put forward as I said before, please let us know.

Best wishes,

Trevor
Covering Hampshire, Dorset, Surrey, Berkshire

matt

trevor, are you part of the APWC ?? ?? ?

Trevor Knight

  • Posts: 1825
Yes Matt I am.
Covering Hampshire, Dorset, Surrey, Berkshire

Ian_Giles

  • Posts: 2986
I think the powers that be need their heads knocking together if they think that a ban on window cleaners producing water for their WFP needs is going to make a whit of difference to water conservation.

In any one town there may be 15 or 20 window cleaners (I'm talking your average size town, not a city)
Currently, if that number were 20, less than half of them will be WFP.

So lets say there are 8 window cleaners in a town of some 10,000 people who use WFP for their work.

Reading through various posts I would say that most do not use more than 350l of water a day, which equates to a 1000l of domestic water per day.

8 window cleaners = 8000l per day

You think that sounds like a lot of water?

It's a drop in the ocean (pun intended)

If just one of the people in that town of 10.000 (say 5,000 households you reckon?) puts the sprinkler on their lawn for just 3 or 4 hours they are going to go through well over a 1000l per hour of water.

I can fill up my 1000l IBC tank in way less than an hour when I empty it to flush and clean it (did it last year, algae growth)

If just one of those 10,000 people use a hosepipe to wash their car, and they spend a quarter of an hour doing it, they will use several hundred litres of water to do so.

These are the kind of area's that make a real difference where hosepipe bans are concerned.
At any one time, in your average town there are going to be a great many people using their hosepipes to water their lawn and garden, some will even leave their sprinkler on overnight! :o
And cars are always being washed.
Many tens of thousands of litres of water are squandered day in and day out totaly unnecessarily in this way every summer.

The towns window cleaners using at most a 1000l of water to go about their daily business is making little difference at all.

Andwe haven't even touched on the colossal water usage of large industry, a soft drink factory or a brewery will use millions of litres every day of the week.

I'll warrent their are savings they could make that could dwarf the piddling amount a WFP user uses.
And by that I mean simply making more efficient use of the water they actually use now.
Water supply is and has always been so plentiful, and so far as industry is concerned, very cheap too, they have had no real reason to develop real efficiency.

And then of course there are the leaks......

Year on year now summer rainfall is decreasing, population and demands for water are increasing, yet still the authorities don't turn greater resources to rectify an absolutely appalling wastage, over a quarter of our water is lost before it even gets to us, it's just staggering I think, and each year that passes it is going to get worse not better.

We need to harvest our rainfall far more effectively, and a major effort needs to be made to replace all the old pipes, and not just by trying to force the water companies to do so, they are a business and have responsibilities to both shareholders and customers and they cannot do this work without massive help from central government, which of course won't be forthcoming will it >:(
And if the water companies made the effort say...to get the leaks and pipes replaced within the next 15 or 20 years we would all be hit with astronamical bills and we'd all be moaning at the enormous upheaval we'd all have to face with many thousands of miles of roads and countryside being dug over....

A major worry isn't it?

So in the meantime we'll save the earth by stopping the half dozen window cleaners in an average town from using WFP...

Ian
Ian. ISM CLEANING SERVICES