[gary evans]

Part 2,

I have just tendered for a housing associatian contract. Not got any to dear?

These we costed at £2.50 per flat + communal, most on  here would charge £5.00 to £10.00 each average 30 to 40 flats + communal in & out.

These were all done by trad, are they still? I will try to find out, but, is this not breaking h&s this will take one man 3/4 day to one day. 1/2 that time doing ups & on top of that the gutters cleaned twice per annum. Some 3 storey included.

This probably stirs up the trad. against pole argument but, i have done WC for 20+ years so i know both sides. Do we report them if they have, do i lecture them on poles & h&s or just walk away.

Gary

[JohnL]

Good on you for what ever your plans are but you are not a judge on H&S and ladders are not yet  illegal for use so be very careful how you proceed.

JohnL

[KarlJones]

Personally I would leave it alone as far as reporting to H&S goes.  The reason is you could end up getting the customer in trouble and if they find out it was you then they are not going to want to use you again.   Do not forget just as we window cleaners communicate so do your customers.  The last thing you want is a conversation about how Mr Evans window cleaning business had called in the H&S.

The customer has got a business to run, the last thing they want is some nosey parker checking up and reporting them or their contractors.

PS--  I just re read this, I am sure it sounds harsh and it was not meant to.  I am going to leave it as it is though, purely because I am not sure that if I made the point any other way the message would get through.  Reporting is a dangerous business plan.  I was not saying you are a nosey parker, but the customer would 100% see it that way.

Walk away and bid another day.  If you could win ever contract you would be richer than the queen.

[gary evans]

John & Karl

It is not something i would do but, it does make you swear when quoting you go through all about h&s & wfp, tell the customer about upvc being cleaned etc & then they ignore it.

Another one that does this is probably the biggest housing association in staffordshire & the prices are rock bottom ie less than £100 for a building worth treble ie 20p a window or less.

I will walk away but, it still narks me.

Gary

[trevor perry]

 i dont know why you get narked if the customer is happy with job being done and he is getting it done cheap then good on him . we all look for cheapest price possible when buying things so why shouldnt our customers, maybe its just that some people want top money and just get greedy if the window cleaner is happy in what he is making and doing a good job and is legal then we either adjust our price to compete with them are look for work elsewhere .

[JohnL]

Yes I agree with you Gary and I am not putting you down on this, thats the last thing I would intend to do.

Maybe a strong emphasis that you are supporting and going along with the H&S, EU and Government Guidelines by quoting the contract and using WFP as your means of operation may wake up your intended customer. By design Housing Associations have a duty to conform with H&S Guidelines - its up to you to push this to them to gain the advantage.

I wonder if the manager responsible for H&S in this organisation is actually aware this contract is under discussion.

Best of luck.

JohnL

[trevor perry]

i  use waterfed pole so i am not using this for an argument for trad cleaning but we can only point out advantages of wfp we cannot tell them that their current window cleaners shouldnt be using ladders because this just isnt true if their window cleaners have done a risk assesment and are taking measures to stop ladders slipping then they are not breaking any law and in all fairness if he is cleaning trad you should certainly be able to beat his price for you will be faster maybe your just to expensive and deluding yourself that your worth more than what you are,

[gary evans]

Trevor

I am not deluding myself, or think i am worth more than what i am & we are not expensive did you not read the prices when i started this topic.

HSE Working @ heights regs 2005 state: LADDERS SHOULD BE USED ONLY WHEN ALL OTHER SAFER ALTERNATIVES FOR WORK AT HEIGHT HAVE BEEN RULED OUT

[gary evans]

Trevor

I am not deluding myself, or think i am worth more than what i am & we are not expensive did you not read the prices when i started this topic.

HSE Working @ heights regs 2005 state: LADDERS SHOULD BE USED ONLY WHEN ALL OTHER SAFER ALTERNATIVES FOR WORK AT HEIGHT HAVE BEEN RULED OUT.

A RISK ASSESSMENT MUST SHOW THAT THE TASK IS A LOW RISK & OF A SHORT DURATION.

To begin with i broke down prices & explained it would be 2 - 4hours working of a ladder, to include frames & cills everytime,

I feel ladders used properly or in short durations have a place in this industry, & should not be banned, but when pricing work or supplying the client should be made aware of h&s especially the implications of breaching H&S regulations

Gary

[trevor perry]

you seem to have missed my point gary if the customer is happy with the job and the window cleaner is willing to work for nothing why pick on his method of work to justify you charging more, window cleaners have worked safely from ladders for years so how you interpret the WAHR is upto you but on a similar note a trad window cleaner could point out safety issues with wfp such as trip hazzards, wet slippery surfaces and manual handling laws they both have safety issues  but fortunately for you most trad window cleaners are not petty enough to point wfp issues out to customers just to get work.
    i have used both methods and each job is weighed up as to which method would be best suited and therefore an h and s officer would have to take my 24 years experience in a trade  into consideration when chalenging my method of work.

[KarlJones]

I have just realised Gary is literally down the road from me   I live up by the colliers and me bird lives a couple of doors away from paul  (another window cleaner, up by the new houses)

I can promise you it wasn't me, and at 20p per window I am glad it wasn't!!!

PS, if you ever have anything to off load rubbish on to I am your man  (shameless plug)

Likewise, if I get told "we want a man with one of those brush thingys" the call is yours.

[gary evans]

Hi Karl

Small world. I,ll remember if we have spare, we do all commercial but have just set father in law up with our old van, he cleans some up by you near high school.
Thats one of ours.

Gary