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M4RK

What wpf system to start?
« on: July 22, 2004, 01:53:34 am »
I know that there is loads of info on this forum for wfp's etc. So much in fact that I think I might be better to pose a direct question than wade through all the posts. :P

I don't have a wfp system although I recognize that this is the way to go.

I have held off because I didn't think it would be worth it for the amount of commercial high work I had.
The other reason is that I am quite happy in my Diesel Fiesta van getting loads of mpg. and getting a wfp would mean big van.

Now I have more commercial work and less domestic, I think it would be a wise investment.

I do a 60 mile trip 5 times a week on a restaurant run. The fiesta is ideal. I would like to use the wfp for the facias, canopies and frames etc. Its all ground level work but would be stacks easier with a wfp.

I do have some 3 storey commercial work it would be ideal for too.

1. What system would you experienced chaps recommend?

2. Would a fiesta van handle a trailer unit?

3. Am I right in thinking carrying 1000L is a days work?

4. How much would I be looking at to set up?

Any advice on what to avoid and what to look for would be much appreciated.

Thanks.



matt

Re: What wpf system to start?
« Reply #1 on: July 22, 2004, 02:08:36 am »
Quote


1. What system would you experienced chaps recommend?

I use a trolley, similar to peters system

2. Would a fiesta van handle a trailer unit?

Ive towed a trailer in a feista van, 1.8 deisel if i remmber correctly, i was ok, as the trailer was fairly small

3. Am I right in thinking carrying 1000L is a days work?

I did half a day (7 till 2) to clean a garden center today, i used 250 L

4. How much would I be looking at to set up?

Ive spent about 500 quid on mine, and it works great now (thanks Philip and Jeff ;)

Any advice on what to avoid and what to look for would be much appreciated.

Avoid being oversold on items, sure a 500 gal RO unit is nice, mines 100 gal and runs all day for the days i work, i come home and fill the drums up and the RO unit is still filling the water butt

Thanks.




kevinmchugh

Re: What wpf system to start?
« Reply #2 on: July 22, 2004, 09:22:09 am »
re;
I did half a day (7 till 2) to clean a garden center today, i used 250 L

7 til 2 ? half a day ?

i must be getting lazy !!!! ;) ;D

wrighty

  • Posts: 368
Re: What wpf system to start?
« Reply #3 on: July 22, 2004, 02:17:45 pm »
I must be a real lazy get - that is oveer a full day for me  :D

matt

Re: What wpf system to start?
« Reply #4 on: July 22, 2004, 09:16:44 pm »
normally work 7 till 5.30 :)

i only work 3 days a week (have my little daughter for the other days, while my mrs works)

so ive got to get the hours in and earn as much as i can in 3 days :) (though my work mate works 5 days a week, as you can guess, come friday he is pretty tired)

will soon work a hour or so more (when we change over to WFP for all our domestics aswell ;))

wrighty

  • Posts: 368
Re: What wpf system to start?
« Reply #5 on: July 23, 2004, 01:12:52 am »
Good luck to you Matt.

Let me know what you think of WFP as I am getting one very soon.

Craig

matt

Re: What wpf system to start?
« Reply #6 on: July 23, 2004, 02:22:30 am »
so far i think its great,

the first time i used the pure water i used a hand pumped backpack, the results were ok, the 2nd time i used the same setup, the results were crap :(... i didnt rinse the brush head out :(, i totally forgot

then this week (wednesday) i used a shurflow pump and trolley etc, pure class, i set the output on full (aprox 60 psi) and the results were great

as i said, 500 quid isnt a great deal and the results are great

will start to fill the water butt 2 days Before i do a OAP home next, and it will work well


Philip Hanson

  • Posts: 652
Re: What wpf system to start?
« Reply #7 on: July 23, 2004, 02:34:17 am »
My advice is to get a good, professional system from a reputable manufacturer.  Some systems look cobbled together, that will give exactly the wrong impression.

Aftersales care is very important with WFP systems, as you will need to have your system serviced and also you'll need to buy consumables too.  You will find you have a ongoing relationship with your supplier, especially as you grow and look to upgrade etc.

Look carefully at the reputation of a company, it will give you an indication of how they do business and ultimately how you as a customer will be treated.  Get a system from a company that is about to go to the wall and you wont be able to get spare parts.  Websites are not always a reliable guide to the size of a company, I have seen some excellently designed websites from very poor companies.

Its better to invest the money in a properly installed, professionally designed and manufactured system than to try and piece it together.

Things to look for when buying a system are:

1: Capacity
Usually systems are available in 300, 600 and 1,000 litres.  The brochures will give you an idea of how many hours each tank will last, but on average a 300 litre system will last 4-6 working hours (1 person)


You will be limited by the size of your vehicle.  A responsible manufacturer will not install a system that will exceed a vehicles payload weight.  To give you an example, an Escort 55 van will only cope with a 300 litre system.

This pure2o system is 650 Litres:

will be suitable for a Kangoo sized van.

2:Water Treatment
There are 2 main types of water treatment available.  RO (Reverse Osmosis) and DI (De-ionization).

RO is very good at removing a lot of water impurities without much wear on the membrane.  If you live in a hard water area (and Mark, you do) then RO will be more economical.  RO brings the purity down to about 12ppm which is then usually finished off with a small DI cell to bring it down to zero.

DI only systems are generally cheaper to buy, but running costs will be much higher if you live in a hard water area.  DI is much faster filling however.

3: Poles
Some suppliers use Aluminium poles (eg Omnipole) other use Fibre-glass and Carbon Fibre.  All have their merits and it is possible to use poles from one manufacturer with a different system.
This is a pure2o carbon fibre pole  


Generally speaking, the best poles I have seen are Ionic's "Ergo-Lite" poles, but be warned they are quite expensive.

4: Safety
A contraversial subject, but that shouldn't mean it is ignored.  The fact is that if you have more than 1,000kg of water behind you in the van and you have an accident, there is a real risk that it will break free and cause you and any passengers severe injury.  Some systems are bolted to your van's floor - this will afford virtually no protection at all.  Others have a more robust anchorage system.  

The WFP industry leader, Ionic Systems has conducted a program of crash tests for exactly this reason, and their systems have "FMVSS-208" certification.  At present they are the only supplier (along with pure2o)  to have done this, but as this issue becomes more important (or, more likely when there eventually is a serious accident) others may follow.  I personally have seen the crash test videos, and even 30mph the results are not pretty.

5: Price

For a good system, say 300 litre I'd budget about £4,000 Including installation but not including poles.

Quote
2. Would a fiesta van handle a trailer unit?

3. Am I right in thinking carrying 1000L is a days work?


A fiesta will not cope with a 1000 litre trailer, no way way on earth.  You'd need a land-rover type vehicle for that.  300 Litres is enough for one person for one day, but even that load will cause a fiesta to struggle.

-Philip
Editor, Professional Window Cleaner Magazine

"The irony of the information age is that it has given new respectability to uninformed opinion"
John Lawton

gibbouk

  • Posts: 171
Re: What wpf system to start?
« Reply #8 on: July 23, 2004, 10:40:51 am »
towing a 1000 litre tank with a fiesta van, is not a good idea, once you finaly get going it will take you about a month to stop. a litre = a kilogramme so its a tonne of just water plus tank + what you have in the van + you. the poor thing will scream in pain. you are not going to get a tank to go in your van,  check out a trolley system from clean tech or peter fogwell, if you dont want to change vans

matt

Re: What wpf system to start?
« Reply #9 on: July 23, 2004, 03:06:24 pm »
a trailer will carry 300 L ok for a feista, ive used 1 to pick up bags of cement etc etc

it was a small trailer and would carry 10 bags of cement (with are 25Kg each) so you could put 10 barrels of water in it

M4RK

Re: What wpf system to start?
« Reply #10 on: July 26, 2004, 09:45:45 pm »
Thanks Phil thats give me loads to think about.

Bye Bye Fiesta.  :'(

Iv'e heard a company called 'Stream' sell systems up my way in the north.

Has anyone bought there systems and would recommend?