[replacement]

Someone asked on another forum about this so i thought ill share here as well.

Ok cleaning windows with them dirty Vents.

Take a quick look at the first picture. The vents are always up the top and collect a lot of dirt and muck; they are always full of it. These can be a problem with a Water Fed Pole. But can be very easy to over come.



When we clean these vents with the frames you can not get away from the problems of runs and streaks, as the spray will course problems anyway so its best to clean them. (If you have a low flow rate and only clean the glass then there will be no problems cleaning)

If we take a look at the next picture (Side view (1)) a lot of users place the brush head over the vent where water will be flowing into the vent, this cleans the vent but leaves a lot water in the vent that runs out over a good few minutes when you have long finished the clean, which cause these runs streaks, and unhappy customers.



Now the way to over come this simple problem is the following. Take a look at the next picture (Side View (2)) By having an 45 degree angle on the brush making the flow rate miss the vent and only having the brush rubbing the vent then we will not get any water into the vent which in turn does not cause them pain in the bum runs or streaks. Just make sure the jets are not pointing at the vents.



This method will stop them runs or streaks with these vents. Hope that helps.

Justin

Ps My drawing is not my strong point.

[elfords]

Justin,

You really do put a lot of trouble into your explanations which is commendable, so I am sorry to be a little negative but hopefully constructive - this point highlights another reason as explained in other posts why we will only clean the frames as a seperate operation with another pole and brush, twice the work - twice the money on average.

So to me you have really highlighted the fact that when wfp pole users say we clean frames, what they are really saying is we clean the frames as best we can or we only clean 3/4 of the frames without it effecting the effective operation of the wfp, especially considering that most upvc windows have these vents.

I am going to stick with our method and be up front that we charge more but do the job thoroughly and clean frames as necessary which is not every month more like twice annually.

[elfords]

To qualify what I said above I mean when wfp users say they clean the frames as well as the windows on each visit or like some will say we clean frames free, this I feel is somewhat misleading and is mainly down to the overselling of the idea by the suppliers of wfp.

I speak from nearly four years wfp experience so its just an experienced opinion

[replacement]

I clean frames and charge the extra for it. This method of the vents still cleans the frames but your not putting the flowing jets into the vents, your just brushing the wet brush over the vent to clean it. Not sure if that helps. But your not ripping people off but doing this there still getting cleaned so cant see what your saying.

I understand some people say they clean the frames free so what let them get on with it, as it will only be more work for us later when they release it takes alot longer and are do not earn as much. I am picking up alot of work from old wc's whom charge £3 a house when i tell the new customer its £10 - £12 its my old one is only £3. Yeah but there not here no more are they. Had this again today when i priced up. Old wc £4.50 me £15 and yes i got the job 30  mins tops.

Justin

Ps It is a massive selling point cleaning the frames, its no good saying your clean them and 2 cleans later you dont as the customer will now and your lose that job. Charge that extra price when wfp to inculde the frames and they will pay for it.

[elfords]

If you just running the bristles lightly over the top frame how can you possibly clean it properly, it needs to be srcubbed thoroughly to remove attached dirt. Plus whilst your method maybe ok up to 1st floor and at a push 2nd fllor but try working like that at 3rd, 4th, 5th floors all day and you will soon know what I mean, and of course once you have gone in saying to the customer that you can do this and that and a particular fussy customer finds out that your not doing everything you say you can, its your hard earned reputation at stake.

[replacement]

I do it and no issues yet. All my customers are over the moon there frames are being cleaned at the same time as there windows and love it.

Gary i cant see why you clean the frames on a seprate occassions as the water and dirt will go on the windows. You might as well just do it all in the first place.

Anyway Frames should be a seprate debate i think, i only pasted this here to help new wfp users.

Justin

Ps I see it as a speical service i provide and i charge for a professional job that inculdes frames. Massive selling point. Belive me if i priced up the same job as you and charged double what you did i would say 90% of the time the customer would go with me due to the frames ill say.

[elfords]

Justin,

I think it is relevant here as the nature of what you have shown involves the cleaning of the vent and the upper frame. I did not mean clean the frames on a seperate occassion I mean with a seperate pole and brush on the same occassion as cleaning the windows, that way you can give the vent and upper frame a thorough clean without the worry of streaks as a clean brush and pole will be used to clean the glass shortly after the initial frame clean when any residual dirty water would have expelled itself from the vent.

But this method would not be as good a selling point for the suppliers as saying wfp poles can do the job all in one pole, my experience begs too differ, but then that might be because I have set a higher standard for the cleaning of frames and vents

[replacement]

I started the post to help people whom might have these issues with vents. Just cant please some people.

Oh well.

Justin

[elfords]

sorry you feel like that Justin, I am also just helping others by given another opinion to your suggestions, and I did praise your contribution if you care to remind yourself by reading above. I hope this does not mean that you do not like any constructive criticism and the idea of someone disagreeing with you, I guess you have had a bad day so I will not take offence, keep up the good work  

[replacement]

Yeah sorry i have had a bad day, my sons gone away with his mother for  2 weeks and i miss him ( Single parnet me, plus he lives with me ) also its rained all day so i cant do no work as i belive its bad for business cleaning windows in the rain, thats another topic.

So sorry if i offended you Gary.

Justin

[elfords]

No problem  

[poleman]

ANDY

[Old_Master]

Great posting Justin
guess its a matter of opinion
We allways clean all frames
180 Estates of flats every month ( 4500 + flats) + all our commercial work, we also clean open windows (with a great deal of care)
Not one problem in 7 years
Glyn
Manufacturer and Contractor we practice what we Preach

[poleman]

Glyn  

Andy

[elfords]

   

[elfords]

Hi Glyn,

The point was not whether you can clean the frames, of course you can, but how you go about and at what costs to the overall resultant clean of the whole window and what price you charge and how you disguise the price etc etc is a completely different matter.

You are very lucky and unique if you and your business have never had any problems or complaints so I salute you, perhaps you could share your wisdom, but of course you would be a little bias towards singing all the benefits without the negatives of the wfp system now would`nt you, understandably so of course but I am here just giving another honest and experienced opinion, so that others on here can make up there own mind, so no offence meant.

[Old_Master]

What can I tell you !
Through my window cleaning company PH Cleaning Services
We have trained probally 200 + + window cleaners  in the use of pole systems. You will see from other postings some of the Window cleaners worked with us for a full week, they are not going to buy from us if they dont think our system and working method works. We have brushes to do sills, brushes to fit through bars on windows etc.

All our window cleaners are profesionaly trained and and qualified in all forms of access including erecting scafolding, operating Scissor lifts, Cherry pickers etc. dont forget we pioneered  the development of the WFP system, and have been using the system for twice as long as you, I would guess you would hope to learn more and more over the next four years.

We worked together with the Health & Safety Executive when they produced their book on pole systems.

You would expect us to be experts in waterfed pole cleaning as we are selling systems wouldnt you?

What negatives are their ?? If the windows and frames are not in good condition, either we dont tender for the work or we price it so high that its worth it.
Glyn
Omnipole

[WavieDavie]

Guys,

This thread started off with a tip which someone wanted to share with others - which is what I believe this board should be all about.

It seems to have developed into a "he said - I said" situation, which is not what this board is about.

Just accept that neither of you will be changing their view on the topic and that you're at stalemate. If you want to continue with it, you've both got each other's emails, so take it off-board.

Thanks in advance,

Davie

[easycleanwindows]

Every time we've cleaned with the same brush for frames and windows the results have always come up good never needed to use separate pole.
If I was to say to all my commercial customers especially our client who we clean 31 blocks of flats for that I was going to charge double to clean the frames first then the glass I know what response I would get.
It doesn't matter whether you use a squeegee or wfp at the end of the day who ever the client uses ive never found it to be because you can do a better job with either method. One block of flats that we clean have 21 flats 4 storeys high 168 windows can you imagine the time and cost if you were to clean with separate poles and the water usage...it would just not be viable and that size job you would have to have four cleaners all day charging 100s and I wouldn't expect any of my customers to pay that wfp or not.