[Bungle]

4. Yes I do it costs tens of thousands of pounds or it did when two of the main crash tested systems had it done Craig mawlam did tell me how much it cost years ago but can’t remember the exact figure .


I think you are missing the whole point of having a gap between the tank and bulkhead the frame around the tank is designed to bend in an impact the tank ruptures and if a lid is fitted the water goes up to the roof of the van taking the inertia up not forward into the bulkhead and then the cab . Why do you think all fire engines have safety relief valves fitted into the top of there water tanks ? It’s to stop surge in the event of an accident and the tank and contents coming into the crew cab area .
An un baffled tank even when 95% full will still will cause surge and can cause a vehicle to swerve as can road camber , have you ever driven anything with an un baffled tank like a water carrier or milk tanker ? If you have you would know this it a fact .

You aint gonna believe this mate, but its true. I hold a CE licence  since the 90's. In a previous life i have driven / drove ? 

Milk tankers, Mollases tankers, sugar tankers and food oil tankers. Actually the food oil tankers was with Abbey Tanks and we did do Orange juice and Apple juice too. Mostly drove artics, but i did do a lot of 8 wheeler work on molasses with multi compartments for smaller niche deliveries of diffent (molasses) products to smaller farms as opposed to mills etc...

 So yes i know about this stuff first hand, and i'm not trying to be rude, but i know its gonna come across like that ... but anyway...... i wasn't sat in the back of a fire engine wondering how it all works. I've driven the things, and everything in between thats relevant to our job. Small vans , 350 litrers.. tranny vans IBC in back etc.......

Have you ever driven a Porsche? Asking for a friend 

[CleanClear]

Have you ever driven a Porsche? Asking for a friend 

I havn't. But based on you and what you say.... i don't think you have either. I know this because you would of moaned your arse off about the price of it. Thats just a guess and i'm well prepared to be wrong.

[CleanClear]

4. Yes I do it costs tens of thousands of pounds or it did when two of the main crash tested systems had it done Craig mawlam did tell me how much it cost years ago but can’t remember the exact figure .


I think you are missing the whole point of having a gap between the tank and bulkhead the frame around the tank is designed to bend in an impact the tank ruptures and if a lid is fitted the water goes up to the roof of the van taking the inertia up not forward into the bulkhead and then the cab . Why do you think all fire engines have safety relief valves fitted into the top of there water tanks ? It’s to stop surge in the event of an accident and the tank and contents coming into the crew cab area .
An un baffled tank even when 95% full will still will cause surge and can cause a vehicle to swerve as can road camber , have you ever driven anything with an un baffled tank like a water carrier or milk tanker ? If you have you would know this it a fact .

You aint gonna believe this mate, but its true. I hold a CE licence  since the 90's. In a previous life i have driven / drove ? 

Milk tankers, Mollases tankers, sugar tankers and food oil tankers. Actually the food oil tankers was with Abbey Tanks and we did do Orange juice and Apple juice too. Mostly drove artics, but i did do a lot of 8 wheeler work on molasses with multi compartments for smaller niche deliveries of diffent (molasses) products to smaller farms as opposed to mills etc...

 So yes i know about this stuff first hand, and i'm not trying to be rude, but i know its gonna come across like that ... but anyway...... i wasn't sat in the back of a fire engine wondering how it all works. I've driven the things, and everything in between thats relevant to our job. Small vans , 350 litrers.. tranny vans IBC in back etc.......

So as I said you will understand how a liquid load in an un baffled tank can cause surge and cause a vehicle to become unstable and drift  across a road

No, not at all. Quite the opposite infact. And you're now jogging my memory.......
 I also drove for Tate and Lyles (liquid sugar) . They done and still do a 'one pot' tanker 40 foot long. No baffles. Why no baffles ?
Well two reasons.. one they didn't half fill or empty it. It was filled and then emptied. So a full tank wouldn't need a baffle, but also cleaning it.... how would you clean a food tank with baffles ?
  But more importantly a 44 ton artic would work out about 7 tonne for the tractor, maybe 10 ton for the trailer /tank leaving you 30 odd tonne for the liquid. And the biggest concern over any of this type set up is that a surge of liquid may reduce braking or drive power if weight is surged onto or off the drive axle. They are actually the problems. Not wondering if the vehicle is gonna fall over or stay in the right lane.

[Splash and dash]

1 . The carriage of goods act has different categories of loads .

Show me.

Look it up for  yourself Ime not wet nursing you and ime not interested in  getting in to a long argument I stand by what I have said

Oh, come on splash. You can't get this deep and not back it up?🤔

Ime not interested in getting into a pointless argument , some will argue black is white that’s there prerogative  , but all the information is out there readily available.

[Splash and dash]

4. Yes I do it costs tens of thousands of pounds or it did when two of the main crash tested systems had it done Craig mawlam did tell me how much it cost years ago but can’t remember the exact figure .


I think you are missing the whole point of having a gap between the tank and bulkhead the frame around the tank is designed to bend in an impact the tank ruptures and if a lid is fitted the water goes up to the roof of the van taking the inertia up not forward into the bulkhead and then the cab . Why do you think all fire engines have safety relief valves fitted into the top of there water tanks ? It’s to stop surge in the event of an accident and the tank and contents coming into the crew cab area .
An un baffled tank even when 95% full will still will cause surge and can cause a vehicle to swerve as can road camber , have you ever driven anything with an un baffled tank like a water carrier or milk tanker ? If you have you would know this it a fact .

You aint gonna believe this mate, but its true. I hold a CE licence  since the 90's. In a previous life i have driven / drove ? 

Milk tankers, Mollases tankers, sugar tankers and food oil tankers. Actually the food oil tankers was with Abbey Tanks and we did do Orange juice and Apple juice too. Mostly drove artics, but i did do a lot of 8 wheeler work on molasses with multi compartments for smaller niche deliveries of diffent (molasses) products to smaller farms as opposed to mills etc...

 So yes i know about this stuff first hand, and i'm not trying to be rude, but i know its gonna come across like that ... but anyway...... i wasn't sat in the back of a fire engine wondering how it all works. I've driven the things, and everything in between thats relevant to our job. Small vans , 350 litrers.. tranny vans IBC in back etc.......

So as I said you will understand how a liquid load in an un baffled tank can cause surge and cause a vehicle to become unstable and drift  across a road

No, not at all. Quite the opposite infact. And you're now jogging my memory.......
 I also drove for Tate and Lyles (liquid sugar) . They done and still do a 'one pot' tanker 40 foot long. No baffles. Why no baffles ?
Well two reasons.. one they didn't half fill or empty it. It was filled and then emptied. So a full tank wouldn't need a baffle, but also cleaning it.... how would you clean a food tank with baffles ?
  But more importantly a 44 ton artic would work out about 7 tonne for the tractor, maybe 10 ton for the trailer /tank leaving you 30 odd tonne for the liquid. And the biggest concern over any of this type set up is that a surge of liquid may reduce braking or drive power if weight is surged onto or off the drive axle. They are actually the problems. Not wondering if the vehicle is gonna fall over or stay in the right lane.

The milk tankers I drove were 33,000 ltr tanks but we could only carry 25,000 ltr the tanks were un baffled you can’t sterilise them ( CIP) if they are baffled , you used to get a lot of surge quarter to half full was worst for this , exactly the same with the water carriers we have they hold 10,000 ltr but we can only carry 6,000 ltr for the weight limit and they use milk tanks si again un baffled they do have polystyrene floats in the tank to try and reduce surge but it doesn’t stop it .

[CleanClear]

The milk tankers I drove were 33,000 ltr tanks but we could only carry 25,000 ltr the tanks were un baffled you can’t sterilise them ( CIP) if they are baffled , you used to get a lot of surge quarter to half full was worst for this , exactly the same with the water carriers we have they hold 10,000 ltr but we can only carry 6,000 ltr for the weight limit and they use milk tanks si again un baffled they do have polystyrene floats in the tank to try and reduce surge but it doesn’t stop it .

Thats interesting mate. Who did you drive for , what vehicles did you drive with 33,000 litrer tanks? What product was in them etc... ?


*edit.,.. You drove  Milk tankers ?  From where to where do ya remember ?

[Bungle]

[Splash and dash]

The milk tankers I drove were 33,000 ltr tanks but we could only carry 25,000 ltr the tanks were un baffled you can’t sterilise them ( CIP) if they are baffled , you used to get a lot of surge quarter to half full was worst for this , exactly the same with the water carriers we have they hold 10,000 ltr but we can only carry 6,000 ltr for the weight limit and they use milk tanks si again un baffled they do have polystyrene floats in the tank to try and reduce surge but it doesn’t stop it .

Thats interesting mate. Who did you drive for , what vehicles did you drive with 33,000 litrer tanks? What product was in them etc... ?


*edit.,.. You drove  Milk tankers ?  From where to where do ya remember ?

Worked for wincanton  transport taking Chanel island milk from st earth  Cornwall to Huddersfield, and many other locations around the uk .
Drove a variety of trucks , Volvo , Scania , ERF, tri axel units and trailers some with air lift axels . All there liner trailers were 33,000 ltr tanks , as I said previously liquid milk , also drove curtain siders with powdered milk products .

[Scottish Cleaning Service]

How to calculate the force of a crash?
The impact to your body in a crash is called crash force. Crash force is equal to your body weight multiplied by the speed of the vehicle. If you hold your child while riding in a vehicle, you could crush the child during a crash. In a 30 mph crash, a 100 pound adult becomes a 3,000 pound force against the child.

Does this mean a 800kg load gets multiplied 30 times at a 30mph crash ? If so, then the floor hooks have no chance of taking that load.

Great post and thanks for posting it. 👍

[Bungle]

Interesting thread this is. My van has a payload of 1400kg, nearly 1.5 tonnes. What sort of cargo can I carry safely that equates to 1.5 tonnes and is strapped to the eye hooks? Is carrying .5 of a tonne of water the most deadly cargo one could carry or is there something else more deadly? Why do manufacturers have payloads so high in a van with just eyelets and a bulk head for protection?

[Spruce]

Interesting thread this is. My van has a payload of 1400kg, nearly 1.5 tonnes. What sort of cargo can I carry safely that equates to 1.5 tonnes and is strapped to the eye hooks? Is carrying .5 of a tonne of water the most deadly cargo one could carry or is there something else more deadly? Why do manufacturers have payloads so high in a van with just eyelets and a bulk head for protection?

This is a good question and one I haven't an answer to. As I've said earlier, Citroen technical dept couldn't give me an answer when I wanted too know the load ratings on those eye hooks for my customer either. Granted, that was a long time ago.

I fitted a factory bulkhead into my Peugeot Boxer as it's much stronger than the after market ones available. The back of my seat as well as the back of the dual passenger seat is right up against the bulkhead.
So any deformation of the bulkhead by the load will push the passenger and driver forward. The seatbelts then do their job both positively and negatively. Then the drivers airbag becomes another problem in this case.

Citroen's answer to get a local reputable body builder to fit heavy duty load securing rails for heavy loads was their safe answer. I past that onto my customer.

Over the years I've seen many vans with a plywood bulkhead. It's there to stop load with sharp corners from tearing the material of the backs of the seats. When I purchased my van second hand, that's what it had.

[AuRavelling79]

Think about it. The report said that the webbing straps were holding the tank set-up  through its holes. It was an IBC tank. The report said there was most of the weight above the holes.

An IBC tank doesn't have holes. The only holes are in its base.

If the straps went through the holes in its base then the tank only sits on this held by the typically flimsy cage and its own weight. Therefore a 90% full tank ripped off of its base and the makeshift bulkhead wasn't strong enough.

"Although the straps would prevent the base of the tank moving forward during this collision there is a lot of weight above that point.

"That tank was allowed to move."

Now to loading hooks.

My old 2006 Doblo van with a 750kg payload had six small D ring loading hooks in to what looked like captive nuts in the floor.

My current Hyundai iload with a 1070kg payload had 8 much larger D-rings and (3 times the size of the doblo) captive nuts. (I don't use these - I have a 110mm x 110mm steel angle across the floor at the back of my tank as part of it's frame - secured to plates under the floor and chassis members held by 6 x 16mm high tensile bolts.)