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RPCCS

  • Posts: 973
Wiring a pump
« on: September 25, 2024, 09:55:50 pm »
http://www.cleanitup.co.uk/smf/1722420993_IMG_1022.jpeg This the battery on the Vivaro, can someone tell me if it’s possible to put a second  battery in the back of the van to operate the reach and wash system and  get charge via a relay please?
There’s a small block on the connector of the van, is it possible to just get the second battery and charged via the relay please.
I’m getting ready to go back to work after being off for 3 years.
Cheers Rich

Spruce

  • Posts: 8462
Re: Wiring a pump
« Reply #1 on: September 25, 2024, 11:25:51 pm »
I have a feeling I've seen this photo on an earlier post asking the same question.

You need to find out more about the charging system of your van.

According to the battery manufacturers, the nature of this battery is an AGM designed for new generation vehicles that are manufactured with stop/start and/or regenerative braking energy capture.

A normal older van's alternator will charge at between 13.9 and 14.2v. Regenerative braking can dump a high charge of between 15 and 18v into the battery.  (Info from George Sterling from Sterling Products regarding a Renault van he tested.) A leisure battery will not tolerate a high charging voltage such as this. If your van has regenerative braking, then you need a battery to battery charger to regulate the voltage that goes to your leisure battery. A Sterling BB1230 or Victron 30 amp will do the trick.

If the battery has a higher charge than 80% of capacity, the alternator might not work at all. This is no good for leisure battery charging.

An AGM battery has a different charging profile to a normal lead acid leisure battery. So if your van needs this type of battery, then the only way to link the 2 batteries together is with a battery 2 battery charger.

What system did you use before you went off work ill? Sorry to ask but the questions you have posted these last few months don't reflect the experience you have already gained previously window cleaning. Please don't take offense at my question.

Success is 1% inspiration, 98% perspiration and 2% attention to detail!

The older I get, the better I was ;)

RPCCS

  • Posts: 973
Re: Wiring a pump
« Reply #2 on: September 26, 2024, 11:05:33 am »
No offence taken at all, I’m so pleased you have reply and yes it does as you said with the  modern  system of charging the way you typed. The problem is the local garage didn’t know how the modern system worked, the old van I had was a Dispatch, and just a normal battery , I wired up a relay no problem at all, I took current van to auto electric yesterday and the boss wouldn’t come and have a look ,he was too busy, so that’s them off the list, I want someone to wire it up that know what their doing, My post haven’t changed as I haven’t found anyone who knew apart from yourself who knew what they said to try and help me. My turn to say I’m sorry if someone answered me previously a couple of months ago, but it’s  not what I’d hope it was the easy way as older vans were fitted with relay. I’ll call at another garage I know the owner and if I don’t  get the what to do. I’ll look up a mobile auto electrician. But anyone else can answer me, please post, thanks to everyone who tried to help me.
Cheers Rich

Spruce

  • Posts: 8462
Re: Wiring a pump
« Reply #3 on: September 26, 2024, 12:39:37 pm »
No offence taken at all, I’m so pleased you have reply and yes it does as you said with the  modern  system of charging the way you typed. The problem is the local garage didn’t know how the modern system worked, the old van I had was a Dispatch, and just a normal battery , I wired up a relay no problem at all, I took current van to auto electric yesterday and the boss wouldn’t come and have a look ,he was too busy, so that’s them off the list, I want someone to wire it up that know what their doing, My post haven’t changed as I haven’t found anyone who knew apart from yourself who knew what they said to try and help me. My turn to say I’m sorry if someone answered me previously a couple of months ago, but it’s  not what I’d hope it was the easy way as older vans were fitted with relay. I’ll call at another garage I know the owner and if I don’t  get the what to do. I’ll look up a mobile auto electrician. But anyone else can answer me, please post, thanks to everyone who tried to help me.

You can't go wrong but to cover all basis with a battery 2 battery charger. I fitted one to my 62 plate Peugeot Boxer, even though a standard VSR works just fine.

Because models of van differ so much from each other and to Euro standards, I honestly don't blame fitters for not getting involved. You can figure out how your van's charging system works by ordering one of those volt meters you plug into your van's cigarette lighter. Just by driving around, you will be able to see if the alternator is charging all the time and if it dumps a lot of power into the battery when you slow down with your foot off the accelerator. What happens to the voltage when you put your highlights on? This is a process and takes time. But buying and fitting a b2b charger will save you the hassle.

I like my Sterling BB1260 unit, but programming it can be very confusing, especially for an old brain like mine.

The Victron Orion DC to DC 30 amp charger will work fine for you and much easier to manage.

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/404212175641?chn=ps&norover=1&mkevt=1&mkrid=710-153316-527457-8&mkcid=2&itemid=404212175641&targetid=4585375813136407&device=c&mktype=&googleloc=&poi=&campaignid=555119507&mkgroupid=1308419990463276&rlsatarget=pla-4585375813136407&abcId=10039096&merchantid=87779&msclkid=6a81699e920813d2d5e40f6bd0e307e3

The best thing about these is that you can program it for the leisure battery you have via an app on your smartphone. In other words, if you have a maintenance free leisure battery, then you program the b2b charger to 14.2v.

What you do need to do is place the b2b charger where it is dry and with plenty of air circulation around the cooling fins on the base.

There are dozens of YouTube videos on how to fit these and program them.

You need to remember that in most cases, a b2b charger will not fully recharge your leisure battery. I still put my 230v leisure battery charger on every night. And a b2b charger isn't cheap.

Then the next question. Do you actually need a b2b charger in the first place, or will you be able to just plug an extension cable into the van every night and recharge your leisure battery?

Our Shurflo pumps draw around 3.2 amps an hour. Our pumps don't run all the time. If they run for 20 minutes on normal everyday residential cleaning, I would be most surprised. So a single pump will draw perhaps 8 amp plus in a full day on the glass. That's 8, 10 or 12 amps from say a 105amp leisure battery. This will leave you 97, 95 or 93 amps in the battery's capacity.
Success is 1% inspiration, 98% perspiration and 2% attention to detail!

The older I get, the better I was ;)

Spruce

  • Posts: 8462
Success is 1% inspiration, 98% perspiration and 2% attention to detail!

The older I get, the better I was ;)

RPCCS

  • Posts: 973
Re: Wiring a pump
« Reply #5 on: September 26, 2024, 04:40:23 pm »
Thanks Spruce  will wait until I get money back before I order what you recommend, I’ve had to get van motd and a lot of expenses, so will have to charge the battery with the machine  for now
Cheers Rich

Ched

  • Posts: 441
Re: Wiring a pump
« Reply #6 on: September 26, 2024, 10:10:35 pm »
It does look like you have an AGM vehicle battery so it's probably a 'smart alternator'. As Spruce says you can't just use a voltage sensing relay.  A dc to dc charger (B2B) is needed to ensure the leisure type battery gets the right voltage.

If your just running a pump and can get mains to your van each night I would just buy a decent battery charger (victron or numax) and charge every night. Nice and simple and no wiring, fuses, B2B and cable routing to worry about.

Spruce

  • Posts: 8462
Re: Wiring a pump
« Reply #7 on: September 26, 2024, 10:20:48 pm »
Thanks Spruce  will wait until I get money back before I order what you recommend, I’ve had to get van motd and a lot of expenses, so will have to charge the battery with the machine  for now

👍 When I had a lead acid leisure battery, the only time the leisure battery got fully charged with my original scr on my previous van was on a trip down to London.

I honestly don't need a b2b charger. It's only saved the day once many years ago when an old leisure battery (Orange in colour purchased at a caravan outlet) failed when cleaning some apartments blocks with 27 flats some 10 miles away. We were able to run the van's engine behind a gated car park to enable us to finish the job. It saved us having to go back when we had got the battery replaced. That was about 16 years ago.


Success is 1% inspiration, 98% perspiration and 2% attention to detail!

The older I get, the better I was ;)

Spruce

  • Posts: 8462
Re: Wiring a pump
« Reply #8 on: September 26, 2024, 10:30:39 pm »
As Spruce says, it does look like you have an AGM vehicle battery so it's probably a 'smart alternator'.  You can't just use a voltage sensing relay.  A dc to dc charger (B2B) is needed to ensure the leisure type battery gets the right voltage.

If your just running a pump and can get mains to your van each night I would just buy a decent battery charger (victron or numax) and charge every night. Nice and simple and no wiring, fuses, B2B and cable routing to worry about.

I agree that his van having an AGM battery would indicate his van having a smart alternator of sorts.

After 3 years of illness, it's going to take a while before he is work fit, so I doubt he will do that much initially while he is getting back into it. I know how difficult it was getting going again after taking 2 weeks holiday in January, let alone 3 years of illness the o/p has experienced.



Success is 1% inspiration, 98% perspiration and 2% attention to detail!

The older I get, the better I was ;)