[Arnold Palmer]

How many times are you getting this soupy?

I've had it maybe 5 or 6 times in 24 years and 9 months.

[Smudger]

so pretty rare then, ive had 4 in 14 years - 2 defo caused by the brush - 2 - could not prove either way

- So in your experience all of yours are "fakers" - not a genuine scratch among them ?

[AuRavelling79]

Ok folks, lets just say things did not go to plan at all.

First of all i couldn't personally attend the property.  I am waiting for a potential operation on my spine and at the moment in alot of pain so i literally can't leave the house most days.  I had to send out a family member who is also part of our business now and knows things inside out so is experienced.

We went there with the sole intention to show the customer our brushes and say look its just not possible to cause scratches from using Gardiners WFP brushes.  That was our agenda.  The customer had their own agenda.  They tag teamed the person i sent out and basically said look.  My husband is a professional window fitter.  He fitted the glass himself and inspected it before putting it on he does this full time so deals with glass every day.  He said the scratches were 100% not there when he fitted them and were not there the week before we cleaned the windows.  Customer is saying that we used a Gardiners plastic scraper to get rid of bird mess.  I asked my employee who is one of my most trusted employees if this is correct and he said no she is lying there was nothing on the glass just the usual 4 weekly dirt buildup.

So its her word vs his word.  Customer got very irate when we basically said look it wasn't us, these brushes are designed for the window cleaning industry and cannot cause scratches.  After my family member showed him cleaning a window, customer just was not having it.

They were adamant it was us end of.  They started getting loud and aggressive and said right i want your insurance details end of, if you don't sort this out im going to post negative google and facebook reviews, report you to trading standards and tell your insurance provider it was you who did it so your premiums will likely go up anyway and if we see you posted on facebook in the local area we will leave negative comments.  They went full balls to the wall psycho mode on my family member who had to leave asap.

My family member came back genuinely upset and said im never doing that again, ever.


I sat for an hour and thought about it.  Do i believe we caused the scratches?  No.  Do i want the hassle of a customer who has spent £400+ with us over the last 2 years reporting me to trading standards, leaving negative reviews on google and facebook and contacting my insurance directly to say we did it?  Hell no. 

I am fortunate enough to be in a position where i have lots of savings, business cash flow is good and finances are good.  I like a simple stress free live as is possible.

I'd much rather fork out and pay for a replacement piece of glass then deal with potential hassle and stress from a customer going psycho mode on us.  We have a good reputation in our area, i dont want to even remotely risk that either.

I did a full 180 and told the customer, i still do not believe we caused the scratches but given all of the circumstances i am willing to pay to replace the glass.  I said, as your husband did it last time can he get me a price from his company to supply and fit the glass and send me the invoice.  She replied and was over the moon and went from psycho biatch mode to friendly customer mode again and said thank you so much.  My husband will not charge you for fitting the glass, he will do it himself for free, he will just get a price from the company to supply the glass.

All in all the glass cost me £113.  It was a wide bedroom pane of glass not a small one, one of those large ones.

So what have i learned from this ordeal?

Not fully sure.  Still dont believe we caused the scratches.  One thing i did learn for myself is that i do not care about principle.  Id much rather pay £100 to get a problem out of my life by clicking my fingers than dealing with the stress, hassle and fallout from a nutter psycho customer starting a witch hunt to damage our company reputation.  If i wasn't in a good financial position i may think differently about this.

Also final closing note.  10 years cleaning windows and this is the first time we have had to payout for damage.  £100 isn't bad for 10 years i would say.

Lets just hope it doesn't happen anytime soon 

Hope you enjoyed folks.  My stress levels were sky high this time a week ago, now its done and dealt with i couldn't care less and all is well in the world again, well all is well apart from my ongoing health issues!  What can ya do though!

I understand completely why you did that.

One question. Are you still keeping them as a customer or are you parting ways?

Despite resolving the matter, if I believed it wasn't my employee I wouldn't go back.

[KS Cleaning]

I wouldn’t have sent a family member around to check it out no matter how experienced they were. I would have waited until one of the good days that I was able leave the house and went myself. I would then have got a first hand account of the customers claims as to why they thought the damage was caused by the employee. Then I would have checked the damaged window to see if the scratch pattern was consistent with brush or scraping movements. After this if there was still any doubt at all I would just pay to have the damage fixed.

[jo5hm4n]

I wouldn’t have sent a family member around to check it out no matter how experienced they were. I would have waited until one of the good days that I was able leave the house and went myself. I would then have got a first hand account of the customers claims as to why they thought the damage was caused by the employee. Then I would have checked the damaged window to see if the scratch pattern was consistent with brush or scraping movements. After this if there was still any doubt at all I would just pay to have the damage fixed.

I haven't left the house in 6 weeks other than to go to hospital due to 10/10 pain off the scale.  Right now there is no good days in my life even on seriously strong pain killers.  The family member is also involved in the business directly, and currently dealing with all staff, day to day runnings of the business and fixing/repairing equipment so they are more than equipped to make serious decisions on my behalf if needed.  Me attending the customers property in my current state is not possibly under any circumstances.  I had all of the facts presented to me from every angle and i believe that i made the right decision in the end.

[jo5hm4n]

Ok folks, lets just say things did not go to plan at all.

First of all i couldn't personally attend the property.  I am waiting for a potential operation on my spine and at the moment in alot of pain so i literally can't leave the house most days.  I had to send out a family member who is also part of our business now and knows things inside out so is experienced.

We went there with the sole intention to show the customer our brushes and say look its just not possible to cause scratches from using Gardiners WFP brushes.  That was our agenda.  The customer had their own agenda.  They tag teamed the person i sent out and basically said look.  My husband is a professional window fitter.  He fitted the glass himself and inspected it before putting it on he does this full time so deals with glass every day.  He said the scratches were 100% not there when he fitted them and were not there the week before we cleaned the windows.  Customer is saying that we used a Gardiners plastic scraper to get rid of bird mess.  I asked my employee who is one of my most trusted employees if this is correct and he said no she is lying there was nothing on the glass just the usual 4 weekly dirt buildup.

So its her word vs his word.  Customer got very irate when we basically said look it wasn't us, these brushes are designed for the window cleaning industry and cannot cause scratches.  After my family member showed him cleaning a window, customer just was not having it.

They were adamant it was us end of.  They started getting loud and aggressive and said right i want your insurance details end of, if you don't sort this out im going to post negative google and facebook reviews, report you to trading standards and tell your insurance provider it was you who did it so your premiums will likely go up anyway and if we see you posted on facebook in the local area we will leave negative comments.  They went full balls to the wall psycho mode on my family member who had to leave asap.

My family member came back genuinely upset and said im never doing that again, ever.


I sat for an hour and thought about it.  Do i believe we caused the scratches?  No.  Do i want the hassle of a customer who has spent £400+ with us over the last 2 years reporting me to trading standards, leaving negative reviews on google and facebook and contacting my insurance directly to say we did it?  Hell no. 

I am fortunate enough to be in a position where i have lots of savings, business cash flow is good and finances are good.  I like a simple stress free live as is possible.

I'd much rather fork out and pay for a replacement piece of glass then deal with potential hassle and stress from a customer going psycho mode on us.  We have a good reputation in our area, i dont want to even remotely risk that either.

I did a full 180 and told the customer, i still do not believe we caused the scratches but given all of the circumstances i am willing to pay to replace the glass.  I said, as your husband did it last time can he get me a price from his company to supply and fit the glass and send me the invoice.  She replied and was over the moon and went from psycho biatch mode to friendly customer mode again and said thank you so much.  My husband will not charge you for fitting the glass, he will do it himself for free, he will just get a price from the company to supply the glass.

All in all the glass cost me £113.  It was a wide bedroom pane of glass not a small one, one of those large ones.

So what have i learned from this ordeal?

Not fully sure.  Still dont believe we caused the scratches.  One thing i did learn for myself is that i do not care about principle.  Id much rather pay £100 to get a problem out of my life by clicking my fingers than dealing with the stress, hassle and fallout from a nutter psycho customer starting a witch hunt to damage our company reputation.  If i wasn't in a good financial position i may think differently about this.

Also final closing note.  10 years cleaning windows and this is the first time we have had to payout for damage.  £100 isn't bad for 10 years i would say.

Lets just hope it doesn't happen anytime soon 

Hope you enjoyed folks.  My stress levels were sky high this time a week ago, now its done and dealt with i couldn't care less and all is well in the world again, well all is well apart from my ongoing health issues!  What can ya do though!

I understand completely why you did that.

One question. Are you still keeping them as a customer or are you parting ways?

Despite resolving the matter, if I believed it wasn't my employee I wouldn't go back.

I have not told the customer yet, but i am not planning on keeping them on as a customer.  I can't see a happy ending to this story.

1) my employee is adamant he did not cause the scratch, and i still believe him.  If i send him back, i don't think that is a good idea at all for employee relations amongst other things. 

2) Given everything that happened including the customer being abusive when we refused to replace the glass, i no longer want them as a customer for multiple reasons, but mainly the abuse that they dished out.

When the glass has been replaced, i will find a way to politely tell the customer and hope they go quietly lol

[jo5hm4n]

Thanks for the update Josh 👍. One thing to question is how did the crusty know there was a scraper on the end of the pole? I'm not trying to doubt your employee but.....

I hope your back gets better soon!

On a side note has anyone else noticed that some new panes of glass have a sheen affect between the panes? I've seen it a lot on especially large patio windows. Id be asking for the glass to be replaced if it was mine, but customers don't spot things like we do a lot of the time.

So sneakily i got my worker to remove the plastic gardiners scrape before we attended the property.  Didn't want to give them an inch to run with.  They saw the pole without a scraper on, but they said we were cleaning the bird muck with something that looked abrasive.

Chances are they have seen our scrapers on previous cleans and were just clutching.  We have been cleaning for almost 3 years, so at some point they probably did see us use the scraper.

Thank you for the kind words

[jo5hm4n]

Great post - I am still digesting it but will in the short term make 1 observation and ask 1 question...

From the customers reaction I would say they are a genuine claim - to be honest they had nothing to gain - only hassle - trusted employee or no, you cant always take there word. (downside of employee's)

Ask Alex G and get a written statement his brushes will noe scratch the glass ... When you get that you can come from the angle you cant possibly have scratched the glass - i don't think you will get one - Yes in normal operation its highly unlikely - but it can and does happen

I think you are right.  It would be interesting to get Alex G take on this situation or on scratching glass as a whole.  I am sure he has to deal with this alot over the years as a manufacturer of brushes.  You are right.  Its basically customers word vs Employee.  I can't fully trust either, so another reason to just pay out.  Its a problem that goes away with £100.  Plus i dont have to deal with insurance premiums going up or excess which is like £250 anyway.  Paying out cash was the best option i think.

[jo5hm4n]

b******s to that once they started shouting and being aggressive it would be game over from me. I would have blocked them and their family on facebook,  phone numbers and sucked up the google review.

I know we dont see it the same, your way was definitely the right professional response though no doubt.

If i was still a one man band with good health, no staff i would totally have been way more inclined to do this 100%.  From a principle point of view, i would still rather take your approach, but having staff, and family member in place also managing staff and day to day operations, i have to think differently now, there is more on the line than just my own pride or ego.  Way more at stake so professional response was the best way in the end i reckon.

[Smudger]

firstly -I would have paid out - TBH there is no other way.

While I trust my employee's I can tell you this without a doubt - they would rather Lie/Deny any wrong than fess up - ive had examples of this

I am a bit concerned about your post - I sneakily removed the scraper ? - WHY ? somewhere in all this you must acknowledge the possibility your employee has done this - and then you are presenting a case different to actual events.

One persons point of view is another abusive behaviour...

Its a shame you couldn't go - just to prove in your mind whether it was a scraper/brush or bogus claim - that could only be done by you in person.

Thankfully these things are very rare

[jo5hm4n]

firstly -I would have paid out - TBH there is no other way.

While I trust my employee's I can tell you this without a doubt - they would rather Lie/Deny any wrong than fess up - ive had examples of this

I am a bit concerned about your post - I sneakily removed the scraper ? - WHY ? somewhere in all this you must acknowledge the possibility your employee has done this - and then you are presenting a case different to actual events.

One persons point of view is another abusive behaviour...

Its a shame you couldn't go - just to prove in your mind whether it was a scraper/brush or bogus claim - that could only be done by you in person.

Thankfully these things are very rare

I can understand what you mean about employees you can never tell 100% of they are being totally truthful. 

The reason why i removed the scraper sneakily is because let be honest.  If you look at a Gardiners Plastic Scraper it looks like it could cause scratches.  When i first started using them i was reluctant to use it at all, as it just looked like it had potential to do damage!  I remember phoning Gardiners and asking them and they said it was perfectly safe to use for scraping.  This was donkeys years ago.  But what i am trying to say is that if you showed up a customers house and said oh this is the waterfed pole we use, by the way on the back it has a plastic scraper.  I feel like you are just asking for them to pass 100% blame that the scraper did the damage, even if it was not used they would still fire blame.  That is why i took it off.  In my mind i have still never seen scratches be caused by the brush or the Gardiners plastic scraper, but i just didn't want to give the customer the chance for blame, but either way it all backfired didn't it because as i say, they went abusive just from seeing the brush nevermind anything else.

I saw photos of the glass and scratches on them, so that was enough for me to see that it was definitely scratched.  There was multiple scratches in lines in 1 small area.  Again if my health wasn't absolutely dire i would of gone myself but it's not possible right now.

As you say thankfully these things are rare.  Last time we got accused of scratching glass was 4 years ago, and i gave same explanation to the customer as i did this one refused liability and they just accepted it straight away and we still clean their windows to this day lol. 

[DJW]

The Customer is always right.

[AuRavelling79]

The Customer is always right.

They really aren't.

[james peters]

The Customer is always right.

I remove these types .... they then become non customers....   which makes them not always right

[Ascjim]

TBH it would be easier just to get it replaced. poop happens

[jo5hm4n]

TBH it would be easier just to get it replaced. poop happens

Yes all in all it does save alot of hassle just to get it replaced for the sake of £100.  The time, stress and hassle even just debating with the customer whos fault it is has a cost.  Either hours of your own time or somebody elses, so there is a cost just to even deal with the issues as opposed to just replacing it.  So many ways to look at it tbh.