[p1w1]

how old are you nigel?12?...... ...blimey........

No think that's the mental age 

[NWH]

Brrrr cold out there boys

[olanorman]

I don't mean to offend, but you need to study how a parking heater works in detail first and then look at some manufacturer's systems to understand why you need to use heat exchangers.

These systems work on the internal heated water circuit (eg a vehicles cooling system which they were designed for,) and the hot water to the brush draws heat from this internal water circuit.  A water to water plate heat exchanger makes the transfer of heat from this internal hot water circuit to your cold water line to the brush head possible.

As has been stated, if it wasn't necessary then the suppliers wouldn't use heat exchangers.

You could of course plumb in a heater to directly heat the water in your tank and as a windie in Andover has done/did. He uploaded his system working on Youtube.

There have been numerous threads over the years on diesel heaters. Just do a search.

The link you have put up for the refurbished heat exchanger isn't suitable as it ideally needs threaded hose fittings.

Oh wow, excellent and knowledgeable feedback, thank you so much! I really appreciate your feedback!

[olanorman]

As I understand it you need the heat exchanger for two reasons. 1. You can alter the temperature with the mixer tap so you're not running full tilt all the time if you don't want too. 8kw will maybe be too hot in winter 2. The usual setup is coolant in the heating circuit as it doesn't corrode the insides of the heater/Heat sensor.

You should also consider using two heat plates so you can have one returning to the tank constantly. That prevents the heater powering up and down constantly, they don't like that and they use more power with constant restarts.

Oh wow, alright, brilliant, thank you so much for your valuable feedback, it helps me

[olanorman]

to the original poster...if your a fairly competent DIYer and enjoy it...why not try and make a budget diesel heater to heat your water?

i can do basic DIY but i wouldnt say i particularly enjoy it and i certainly wouldnt try installing a diesel water heater and integrating it into my system...i wouldnt have the confidence....after my scare with a gas leak and explosion from a gas water heater a few years ago when i was a DIY er id pay for a pro system installation every time.....

im planning on keeping my van for 10+ years and when i got my 9kw diesel heater fitted it was a present to myself for  25 yrs window cleaning!

for most of my window cleaning life ive bought old cars/high mileage vans esp when trad which is fine but i noticed when i did this when wfp i was changing my van every few years and the hassle of installing tanks and messing about with gas shower heaters,not to mention breakdowns in my van,it was a faff.......

i have a very well established compact round and just want to get the work done as efficiently and as easy as possible with little faff/downtime so i went with a grippatank hydroheat with frost stat.....its never missed a beat in 2 years and hopefully ill get many years service out of it.......

Yeah it can be a pain at times to DIY and get a proper working system, and happy to hear your really excited about your setup.. Im sure your decision was good, and frost stat is great!

You see, you have done this for over 25 years already - congratulations!! So to be very frank, I think window cleaning is extremely boring, thats why last time I had a window cleaning company my focus was mostly growth, and trying out new things within the branch, but sold it off to travel the world for quite a few years. What I like about window cleaning is that it gives me a flexibility with traveling when I want, make okay money, listen to a book, podcast etc while working...

If I want to "survive" this kind of work, I want hot water system, simple as that. Ive had LPG hot water and of the shelf 9kw diesel system. LPG system worked nicely for me, but I safety aspect of it is another thing. I helped another company setup LPG heater, but they blew 2 setups, also seeing pictures from here... I dont want to do that again.... Not worth the risk.....

Diesel system worked great, expect stopped working after a while, dont know what it was, but it was serviced at a diesel center and it was just paid off... but I paid I think about £ 7k for a full wfp system with shipping, this was about 10 years ago.... Now I think if I can understand and set it up myself, I can also easier do troubleshooting and save some cash... I also like learning new things..

So if I can not pull it off by setting up a system by myself and help from forum / learning things online... I will buy a system... Or just go back to working with IT systems 

[olanorman]

I have 1 a 9kw 2 man heater well worth the money ,if I had someone cleaning windows I’d want them to use hot water that’s the response I get from customers.
I’d love to work beside a cold cleaner on some work and see them get the same results as me.

Sorry mate but what a load of crap. Your customers couldn’t give a monkeys whether you use hot or cold water, they just want clean windows.

I also think that the most important for the customer is that its clean, not necessary how they are cleaned. For some customers coming from TRAD, explanation is needed at times.. If they are being explained the difference between hot and cold water, also also think that many would prefer having it done by hot water..

There seem to be several strong opinions about this subject, so that can be a good thing

At least information I find online about hot water vs cold:
- Higher temperature means the water molecules are on average bouncing around faster – they have more kinetic energy. When introduced to a surface they will quickly bounce around dislodging any weaker molecules such as dirt that is on the surface.

- Heat increases the internal attractive energy of the water, allowing it to have more attractive force on a microscopic level. Although this energy increase is much less prominent than the increased kinetic energy it still allows improved ability to “suck” away the stain/dirt molecules from the surface.

My own experience is that windows that are not cleaned very often, say 1-4 times a year can be cleaned much quicker.. This is my experience.... Dont know if it matters so much in other conditions, but at least Ive seen a big difference, especially on large commercial jobs.

The most important for me, is just to have equipment Im happy with, so that I can actually work more and not get too tired mentally of cleaning windows.. 

[Spruce]

I don't mean to offend, but you need to study how a parking heater works in detail first and then look at some manufacturer's systems to understand why you need to use heat exchangers.

These systems work on the internal heated water circuit (eg a vehicles cooling system which they were designed for,) and the hot water to the brush draws heat from this internal water circuit.  A water to water plate heat exchanger makes the transfer of heat from this internal hot water circuit to your cold water line to the brush head possible.

As has been stated, if it wasn't necessary then the suppliers wouldn't use heat exchangers.

You could of course plumb in a heater to directly heat the water in your tank and as a windie in Andover has done/did. He uploaded his system working on Youtube.

There have been numerous threads over the years on diesel heaters. Just do a search.

The link you have put up for the refurbished heat exchanger isn't suitable as it ideally needs threaded hose fittings.

Oh wow, excellent and knowledgeable feedback, thank you so much! I really appreciate your feedback!

I've just noticed that the aliexpress heater you linked to is described as an air heater. If you do order it you need some guaranteed way of getting your money refunded if an air heater is supplied.

Imho there is no perfect solution. You have to keep a diesel heater running so you need have a way of bleeding excess heat generated back to the tank when you stop working.

Ionics have a system that uses one heat exchanger and a header tank. The external water system to the brush head is on a 65psi relief valve. When you switch the water off to the brush head, pressure builds up in the system and activates the relief valve which directs hot water back to the tank.
The down side is that you can't regulate the heat of your water. Yes, they have an extra switched wire coupled up to the Webasto 90 they use to reduce the maximum heat output by 10 degrees (around that) for winter. It seems to work fine as there have been no complaints on a mass scale of cranked windows using their systems.

One of the window cleaners put up a YouTube video (Squeeky clean Dave) of pouring boiling water over a couple of frozen double glazed window panes without cracking them. Single glass would be a concern.
A Webasto takes about 180 seconds to get fired up. When it shuts down it goes through a shutdown cycle which also takes around 180 seconds. A few degrees temp before shutdown they go into a reduced heat mode. These German heater's are quite complex.
I'm not sure if the Chinese copies are as sophisticated.

[dazmond]

to the original poster...if your a fairly competent DIYer and enjoy it...why not try and make a budget diesel heater to heat your water?

i can do basic DIY but i wouldnt say i particularly enjoy it and i certainly wouldnt try installing a diesel water heater and integrating it into my system...i wouldnt have the confidence....after my scare with a gas leak and explosion from a gas water heater a few years ago when i was a DIY er id pay for a pro system installation every time.....

im planning on keeping my van for 10+ years and when i got my 9kw diesel heater fitted it was a present to myself for  25 yrs window cleaning!

for most of my window cleaning life ive bought old cars/high mileage vans esp when trad which is fine but i noticed when i did this when wfp i was changing my van every few years and the hassle of installing tanks and messing about with gas shower heaters,not to mention breakdowns in my van,it was a faff.......

i have a very well established compact round and just want to get the work done as efficiently and as easy as possible with little faff/downtime so i went with a grippatank hydroheat with frost stat.....its never missed a beat in 2 years and hopefully ill get many years service out of it.......

Yeah it can be a pain at times to DIY and get a proper working system, and happy to hear your really excited about your setup.. Im sure your decision was good, and frost stat is great!

You see, you have done this for over 25 years already - congratulations!! So to be very frank, I think window cleaning is extremely boring, thats why last time I had a window cleaning company my focus was mostly growth, and trying out new things within the branch, but sold it off to travel the world for quite a few years. What I like about window cleaning is that it gives me a flexibility with traveling when I want, make okay money, listen to a book, podcast etc while working...

If I want to "survive" this kind of work, I want hot water system, simple as that. Ive had LPG hot water and of the shelf 9kw diesel system. LPG system worked nicely for me, but I safety aspect of it is another thing. I helped another company setup LPG heater, but they blew 2 setups, also seeing pictures from here... I dont want to do that again.... Not worth the risk.....

Diesel system worked great, expect stopped working after a while, dont know what it was, but it was serviced at a diesel center and it was just paid off... but I paid I think about £ 7k for a full wfp system with shipping, this was about 10 years ago.... Now I think if I can understand and set it up myself, I can also easier do troubleshooting and save some cash... I also like learning new things..

So if I can not pull it off by setting up a system by myself and help from forum / learning things online... I will buy a system... Or just go back to working with IT systems 

window cleaning is a means to an end.....most jobs are boring after a while....the great thing about window cleaning(esp in this day and age)is once you have built up a good round then its very easy to work short hours for half decent money,no stress,flexibility,its self sustaining(no need to go looking for new work!it comes to you if you want it!).....IMO you cant beat it.....no collecting anymore due to online payments,round software,hot WFP,its never been a better time to be a window cleaner....

BUT!from my experience do you really want to be faffing about with cheap DIY hot systems?if i had my time again i would of gone straight for a brand new 9kw grippatank heater with frost stat from the start,fitted into a brand new van.....then your sorted for many years to come....with very little downtime/problems leaving you time to just get on and do your job....

[P @ F]

Just buy one of mine !
Will have a price for them very shortly