[Scrimble]

I think its unfair that bigger firms have to be vat registered and small sole traders get away with paying no vat to hmrc, why do you think bigger firms are going to try to level the playing field against sole traders who get away with paying far less tax

[Slacky]

It’s not the small firms that get away with paying VAT, it’s their customers that don’t pay the VAT. The bigger businesses are just the unpaid tax collectors.

[Scrimble]

It’s not the small firms that get away with paying VAT, it’s their customers that don’t pay the VAT. The bigger businesses are just the unpaid tax collectors.

so my firm who charges £12 for a house which is £10 plus vat is the same as a sole trader who is not vat registered who gets to keep the full £12?

every firm or sole trader should be vat reg to make it fair

[G Griffin]

Small, sole traders already pay VAT on vehicles, poles, ladders etc.

[p1w1]

It’s not the small firms that get away with paying VAT, it’s their customers that don’t pay the VAT. The bigger businesses are just the unpaid tax collectors.

so my firm who charges £12 for a house which is £10 plus vat is the same as a sole trader who is not vat registered who gets to keep the full £12?

every firm or sole trader should be vat reg to make it fair

So when your firm buys a piece of equipment they get the vat back a sole trader does not

[Slacky]

just to make it fair.......

[AuRavelling79]

Not mentioning any company's or names but I know for a fact some dudes running 10 vans 6 vans providing all tools uniforms etc
Yet the window cleaners are self employed I know as I worked with someone the other day who used to work for a big fish from this very forum and he told me how it worked just like that

Don't get me wrong if it's legal fine as it's better but surely this isn't allowed what fascinates me is some of the guys have several vans and produce a serious turn over
Unless I'm missing something id love to know if you can actually do this as the reason why I haven't employed is because of the Liabiltys of being an employer but now I'm curious to know if you can do it

Why don't you mind your own bloody business! Your never going to have the headache of running 10 vans! Keep blodding along with your DIY  650 Ltr and put you neck in.

Last warning Tony Day. Any more abusive posts and you will be on the naughty step.

[Crystal-clear]

Small company's or sole traders are below the vat threshold they are turning over less money
Let's keep it on topic which is about company's small or large getting away with employing self employed as if they are employed for most it's the larger company's that seem to do it really well,
What we are saying is it's down to one of the employees to take them to a tribunal for holiday pay ssp etc
But I think realistically that won't happen and those company's are hedging their bets
Is it really just down to that or can they do it? I'll tell you why as cos if you can id like to employee like that strait away but I won't as I know it's not 100% right so I won't

What would be good is if one of those large company's would comment and tell us how they are doing it and how it's legal I noticed none have commented
Oh thanks and gold for noticing we got such fantastic admins haven't we 

[Slacky]

People may be employed on a self-employed basis by cleaning companies, but his arguement is dependant on whether or not those who are employed are employed SOLELY by the national company. If they also have their own work which they manage, fund and operate at their discretion then cleaning work that they do through another company can also be viewed as self-employment work.

Don’t assume it’s their only work, it may well not be.

[Crystal-clear]

People may be employed on a self-employed basis by cleaning companies, but his arguement is dependant on whether or not those who are employed are employed SOLELY by the national company. If they also have their own work which they manage, fund and operate at their discretion then cleaning work that they do through another company can also be viewed as self-employment work.

Don’t assume it’s their only work, it may well not be.

As I said in the OP I met someone who worked for a large well known establishment from this forum it was full time work only job van uniform tools everything supplied he himself felt It wa wierd how he wasn't employed and left as he wanted a stable wage and holiday pay etc he was paid as if he was a subby a percentage of the job but using all vans tools uniforms etc

[johnwillan]

I'll tell you why as cos if you can id like to employee like that strait away but I won't as I know it's not 100% right so I won't

As mentioned previously employment does not have to be the burden so often portrayed, why not use that route?

However in answer to your question mini cab operators including UBER use a third party often owned by them to rent vehicles to drivers, in addition they act as agents providing work and collecting payments on behalf of drivers, they in turn deduct their fee prior to reimbursing drivers.

I trust that makes sense, no reason why this couldn't work in our industry.



 

[Smudger]

companies have no obligation to check weather the 'self employed' worker is actually doing other work, they may or may not ask, but it will say that the worker is FREE to work  for themselves or others and decline work from the said company - but that then boils down the how brave the worker is in respect of refusing work only to be frozen out long term - much the same can be said for companies who have only one or two big customers if they don't except price cuts etc.. they lose the work

So these companies are doing nothing wrong as far as the letter of the law goes - but morally ?   just like zero hour contracts it's bad news for the employee

as Spruce pointed out previously working over  48 hrs  - your free not to sign it but those who didn't  suddenly had no overtime, received disciplinary action over the smallest thing then finally left ( all of their own free will of course )

Darran

[Walter Mitty]

People may be employed on a self-employed basis by cleaning companies, but his arguement is dependant on whether or not those who are employed are employed SOLELY by the national company. If they also have their own work which they manage, fund and operate at their discretion then cleaning work that they do through another company can also be viewed as self-employment work.

Don’t assume it’s their only work, it may well not be.

I used to sub work from a company that varied between about £350 and £600 a month. It was regular too. I was given a list of jobs and their approximate frequencies and left to get on with it. End of the month I submitted the invoices and got a cheque back several weeks later.  The point of it is that even though I was under a very limited amount of control regarding the prices and when to clean, my own work amounts were far greater than that. I could usually work it in with my own work (up to a point) to keep travel miles down.