[Edge Clean]

I remember Doug Atkinson (among others) actively seeking it and plenty of windys chipping in that it would be a good thing?

Councils have been licensing window cleaners since 1982 , long before Doug, myself and others started window cleaning businesses. We are not responsible for window cleaning licenses being introduced.

The Scottish licensed window cleaners network (SLWCN) which Doug, myself and others formed, was set up in 2006, to actively seek improvements and fairness in the licensing system.

That's what I'm thinking of, I take it you've not got very far with it then?

We have had successes in getting numbers of licensed window cleaners up, councils to employ enforcement officers, etc.

Until we came along councils were happy to sit back taking license fees and refusing to deal with complaints. Several councils we have dealt with now deal with the complaints as there are now procedures in place where we can pursue the matters further if they don't satisfactorily deal with complaints.

But there is still a very long way to go, I am hoping that we can see changes to the system by the time the next Holyrood elections come around in 2021.

The Scottish government in previous attempts to get improvements kept sending us back to deal with the councils to get these improvements, but I have possibly made our first break through to get it reviewed by the government.

I just need to find the time to get input from window cleaners as to what gripes they have currently and what changes changes they would like to see, the more support I have to demand change the easier it will be to achieve it. I am even taking onboard the gripes yourself and Sean K have as I feel many of the window cleaners up here have the same issues with licensing.

[Soupy]

I'm in. Anything I can do to help, let me know.

I like the enforcement officer 👮 I'll be putting that in my letter to the council.

[KS Cleaning]

I have had a licence for 12 years and have only been asked to produce it once, about 10 years ago ( by a community police officer ).
The local rag ran a story a few years back urging householders to only use window cleaners who possess a valid Fife Council licence, (obviously the councils cheapest way of trying to weed out unlicenced operatives ) the list of whom could be found on the SLWCN web site..........surprise surprise, my name ( and many others I know who had a valid licence ) wasn't on the SLWCN site

[Edge Clean]

KS,

The listings on the website was a good idea at the time, but getting councils to supply updated lists on a regular basis was an uphill struggle, some councils simply refused to supply lists although anyone has the right to view or copy the list on request.

It got to the stage that Doug would only request a list from the council whenever a member asked him to do it.

I think Doug has now deactivated the website, I will try getting hold of him next week to try getting it back up and running.

I am requesting a list of license holders from Fife Council on Monday morning, as I want to know how far along my application is, I can forward this list onto you when I get it if you wish.

[KS Cleaning]

KS,

The listings on the website was a good idea at the time, but getting councils to supply updated lists on a regular basis was an uphill struggle, some councils simply refused to supply lists although anyone has the right to view or copy the list on request.

It got to the stage that Doug would only request a list from the council whenever a member asked him to do it.

I think Doug has now deactivated the website, I will try getting hold of him next week to try getting it back up and running.

I am requesting a list of license holders from Fife Council on Monday morning, as I want to know how far along my application is, I can forward this list onto you when I get it if you wish.

Na wouldn't bother passin it on to me mate, just makes my blood boil knowing how many unlicensed window cleaners are able to work my area without one. Your explanation as to why my name wasn't on the list says it all, the council will take your money and do nothing in return apart from issuing you with an ID badge.  I remember looking at the SLWCN a while back and was surprised at how many of the window cleaners had let their licence lapse. Now surely it wouldn't be too hard for some enforcement officer to check the list and ensure that all the window cleaners on the data base who were still trading had an up to date licence .  The next time mines is due for renewal I will seriously consider not renewing it.

[JSMC]

See companies out n about round towns working for nationals. Not a chance in hell these guys have them for every council area they work.

[matthewprice]

I have had a licence for 20 years or more,dont think it's a bad thing my two issues would be why it has to go out on pubic notice for about a month ,then go to police for a criminal background report,,who have 21 days to respond,never been done within this time scale,i feel in these days of  computers the police should know everything you have done in minutes,making the need for the public review unnecessary,also why renew every 3 years ,needless unless you have a conviction.

[Soupy]

I have had a licence for 20 years or more,dont think it's a bad thing my two issues would be why it has to go out on pubic notice for about a month ,then go to police for a criminal background report,,who have 21 days to respond,never been done within this time scale,i feel in these days of  computers the police should know everything you have done in minutes,making the need for the public review unnecessary,also why renew every 3 years ,needless unless you have a conviction.

If you get a conviction the police might complain that you are no longer "a fit and proper person" and take your licence off you.

[JSMC]

I know plenty who have served jail time n have a licence. You cannot keep using that against someone who is trying to work. Yes there will be some crimes which should be looked at by the panel.

[Soupy]

Peeping Tom and burglar. Can't really see why any other crime would be a problem.

[Shane sharples]

Peeping Tom and burglar. Can't really see why any other crime would be a problem.

Peedo's ? rapist ... Murderers , I think there's worse people than peeping toms and burglars that shouldn't be working on people's property's

[Soupy]

Peeping Tom and burglar. Can't really see why any other crime would be a problem.

Peedo's ? rapist ... Murderers , I think there's worse people than peeping toms and burglars that shouldn't be working on people's property's

Yeah but you can't really stop all criminals from working. I picked on peeping toms and burglars because there would be obvious opportunities there.

Obviously there are other reasons to not grant a licence.

[David Beecroft]

As I understand it, its a criminal offence to be caught without a licence. So I could end up with a criminal record for trying to earn a living. I moved from one area where a licence wasn't needed to another where it was, so I wasn't conscious of the need to apply for one. I got stopped one morning by the police as I was cleaning the outside of a Pub. The Procurator Fiscal got involved and I had to go in front of the licencing committee, apologise and plead my case. They granted me a licence and a couple of months later the Procurator Fiscal wrote me saying the matter wasn't going to be pursued. I don't mind paying for a licence, I think we are in a unique position being around peoples homes when they are not home and often knowing when customers are on holiday. However the inconsistency of the system frustrates me.
Now we have one police force it shouldn't be necessary to be licenced several times. We should be able to take on employees for a trial period without having to wait weeks or months or having to pay for a 3 year licence when they'll probably only be around a few months. We should be able to take on students during the summer months.  We should be able to take people out for a day to give them a taste of the job without risking breaking the law. I feel as though I'm ranting but changes do need to be made.
I'm happy to support moves in this direction as long as its done respectfully and doesn't involve politics or protests.

[JSMC]

I agree we should be able to hire someone for a short time to help out or have a temp licence whilst you trial someone.  Im pretty sure somewhere this could be classed as restricting trade or something.

[Edge Clean]

As I understand it, its a criminal offence to be caught without a licence. So I could end up with a criminal record for trying to earn a living. I moved from one area where a licence wasn't needed to another where it was, so I wasn't conscious of the need to apply for one. I got stopped one morning by the police as I was cleaning the outside of a Pub. The Procurator Fiscal got involved and I had to go in front of the licencing committee, apologise and plead my case. They granted me a licence and a couple of months later the Procurator Fiscal wrote me saying the matter wasn't going to be pursued. I don't mind paying for a licence, I think we are in a unique position being around peoples homes when they are not home and often knowing when customers are on holiday. However the inconsistency of the system frustrates me.
Now we have one police force it shouldn't be necessary to be licenced several times. We should be able to take on employees for a trial period without having to wait weeks or months or having to pay for a 3 year licence when they'll probably only be around a few months. We should be able to take on students during the summer months.  We should be able to take people out for a day to give them a taste of the job without risking breaking the law. I feel as though I'm ranting but changes do need to be made.
I'm happy to support moves in this direction as long as its done respectfully and doesn't involve politics or protests.

David which area did you move to that required the license...not having a license is not a criminal offence it is a civil offence, there is a difference. Difference explained here

http://www.landlordlawblog.co.uk/2010/12/18/criminal-law-and-civil-law-explained-they-are-not-the-same/

I do agree that temporary licenses should be available in each county area, a DBS check can be done in seven days, I think any serious potential employee should be responsible for paying the £25 for this check to be carried out and the check being lodged with the council, who should have the licensing manager review the check and decide there and then if application for a full license would be go through unchallenged, if it will go through unchallenged a temporary license should be issued until such times that the full license is granted and issued.

If there is a chance that the application maybe challenged then the licensing manager should be able to use his discretion, he/she will have a rough idea of what will get approved at licensing committee and what won't. If it won't pass the licensing committee then no temporary license should be issued?

Thoughts?

[David Beecroft]

Hello again,
yes you would think it should be a civil offence, however look at this link.
http://www.eastlothian.gov.uk/news/article/1731/new_licence_requirements_for_window_cleaners_and_second_hand_traders
This states that its a criminal offence to be caught without a license?

[Edge Clean]

Thanks for that link David, I wasn't aware East Lothian had started licensing window cleaners, I will call them after work today to get clarification from them on why they see it as a criminal offence, when the other 26 councils class it as a civil offence.