[M & C Window Cleaning]

I've been using a Freedom trolley for seven years with an analogue controller which worked instantly when I operated the trigger valve on my pole. However, I've recently bought a new freedom trolley which has the digital controller. This controller takes a full four seconds to kick in when I operate the trigger.  I have tried both high and low CAL settings to no avail and it doesn't matter what flow rate I use either. It still takes four seconds to start up every time I open the trigger valve/tap.

This of course is not a big problem if you have your water flowing constantly once you start a job. However, in order to conserve water I don't. I only use water once my brush is on the window. So as you can imagine it's irritating to have to wait four seconds for the water to start flowing on every window.

I've spoken to the guys at Pure Freedom and they are looking into it with their suppliers. But I was wondering if anyone else has found this to be a problem and found a/the solution.

[Ian Sheppard]

The delay could be down to a number of factors, such as hose wall expansion rates, run of hose height of the pole, Size of brush jets ID of the hose and connectors. Controller set up may also be a factor.

To get a better idea of your set up can I ask a few questions.
1. What is the hose and connectors ID
2. What size jets do you have
3. How much hose are you running out
4. Height of the pole
5. Lastly what are the flow rates and Calibration set to

I am working on the basis the trolley has a 100PSI 5.2 Ltr per min pump with a max current rating or 8 or 9 amps

I suspect the issue you are experiencing may be down to the time it takes the pump to pressure the system. System pressure is generated by the pump,hose and jets. The expansion rate or the hose wall expansion rate will also have an impact on time to pressure the system.
The Controller does not effect pressure but is able to monitor changes.
Calibration of the controller to the pump allows the controller to know the base operating pressure in the system and how much current is being drawn by the pump. (EG this could be 50 PSI and the pump draws 3 amps) each system will vary slightly. 
When the pole tap is used to stop water flow the pump will continue to try push against the restriction, this increases pressure in the system the controller sees this change and dead ends the pump. Now the higher the calibration the slower the controller reacts to this change and the lower calibration the faster it reacts. In turn a high Calibration figure could mean the controller will be slower to restart the pump and come out of DE.

While the pump is in dead end  the controller will retest the condition every 3 seconds. The reason for DE test is so the controller knows when water is flowing or stopped. Now if you happen to turn the pole tap at the beginning of the cycle the pump could take 3 seconds to start,  Take into account that the pole is against the glass and water pressure has to work against gravity this might explain the delay you are seeing.
As a general rule on some occasions when you restart flow the DE test cycle will either be in the middle or end of the cycle so water would flow quicker.

Another factor, when you turn the pole tap some pressure between the tap and the brush head will dissipate in effect even after turning off flow residual pressure in the line will push some water out of the brush head leaving some pole hose with no pressure and no water in it. On restarting flow this section of the hose will need to re pressurize this may lead to a short delay in water to the brush head on the glass.

They will always be a short delay in water flowing to the brush when the pole tap is re opened depending on some of the factors already mentioned. With a system under pressure it can sometimes appear to be instant in reality there is usually a small delay as the line re pressurizes.

To reduce the delay the correct calibration settings needs to be found for the system. My suggestion initially would be to use the auto calibration feature of the controller. To get this as accurate as possible I would suggest you run line out from the trolley plus attach the pole and brush, provided it can be done safely either stand the pole up with it extended or have someone hold the pole in an extended position.  This creates that normal operating pressure mentioned earlier now run the auto calibration. 
See video link https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9kKoskb7l7c&index=15&list=PLUpfSwT7wIhfyiM-jbIDJPoH0UlNQZL9y

for more information on systems pressure this article gives some insights
https://www.linkedin.com/pulse/pressure-dynamics-wfp-system-ian-sheppard?trk=mp-author-card

Please do let me know how you get on

[Spruce]

I've been using a Freedom trolley for seven years with an analogue controller which worked instantly when I operated the trigger valve on my pole. However, I've recently bought a new freedom trolley which has the digital controller. This controller takes a full four seconds to kick in when I operate the trigger. I have tried both high and low CAL settings to no avail and it doesn't matter what flow rate I use either. It still takes four seconds to start up every time I open the trigger valve/tap.

This of course is not a big problem if you have your water flowing constantly once you start a job. However, in order to conserve water I don't. I only use water once my brush is on the window. So as you can imagine it's irritating to have to wait four seconds for the water to start flowing on every window.

I've spoken to the guys at Pure Freedom and they are looking into it with their suppliers. But I was wondering if anyone else has found this to be a problem and found a/the solution.

The same happens with my Digital Varistream and exactly the same happened with my previous analogue Varistream.

But it doesn't take 4 seconds each time before the water starts to flow again. Sometimes its immediate and sometimes its a much shorter delay.
As Ian says, it depends on where the programmer is in the DE test cycle. TBH, it may cause a little frustration once or twice a day when I have to wait for the full 4 seconds.

I had a roll of minibore hose that was overly stretchy and used to swell as the DE pressure was reached. On opening my aquadapter the extra water in the swollen hose would rush out, so I never had a problem with this delay. However, this swelling hose caused all sorts of other issues, so I'm happy to live with this delay.

We have to remember that the controller is an electronic pressure switch, not a manual one which would react immediately to pressure changes. I'm surprised PF didn't tell you this straight away.

When we were young we lived on a small holding in Africa outside Bulawayo.  The water supply was from a borehole that fed a large raised water tank. The water level in the tank was controlled with a float switch. Because the water level in the tank was much higher than the house there was enough water pressure with gravity to provide sufficient water flow to the house. But the water always had a metal taste due to the water tank.

Later that water tank was replaced by an expansion cylinder. The submersible bore hole pump would pressure the water system and this expansion cylinder would hold enough water under pressure to allow a cushion so the bore hole pump didn't cycle if we were just using a small amount of water.

To get back to this delay with the electronic controller. I have wondered if the same principle could be applied and what would be the result if we fitted an expansion cylinder between the pump and the van port (in my case.)

This expansion cylinder we had on the plot was about the same size and shape as an LPG tank made to fit inside a car's spare wheel housing inside the boot. It didn't have a 'bladder' and was made out of copper.  Every so often we would need to drain the water out of this expansion cylinder so it would fill with air and work efficiently again.

I would imagine a much larger version of an anti hammer rester would do the trick, especially if it was made with 28mm copper water pipe. It would need to be mounted vertically and must have an air pocket at the top to push the water out once you open the tap to start cleaning again. Maybe a couple of 28mm pipes mounted together would work.

http://www.toolstation.com/shop/p64117?utm_source=googleshopping&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=googleshoppingfeed&mkwid=sILQhuAa4_dc&pcrid=46335011543&pkw=&pmt=&gclid=CjwKEAjwh6SsBRCYrKHF7J3NjicSJACU

[M & C Window Cleaning]

Thanks both for your replies. Everything I've experienced with this controller fits in with what you've explained.  I can rest assured that there is nothing wrong. The three second test seems to explain the pause. Might be worth mentioning that on the instructions. I use three lengths of hose and the shortest is the most annoying. It is also a slightly less flexible hose than the longer ones so doesn't expand as much under pressure so the delay would be more noticeable if I understand correctly.

What threw me was that I never experienced this at all with the original analogue controller. It was always instant. When I wanted it, it was there. It's a different way of working I guess. I shall adapt I'm sure.

Thanks again

[Ian Sheppard]

The new V11 controller has a number of features that the older analogue would not have. The way the units react to water flow being stopped is one of these. The V11 is designed to protect he system while in DE and avoid the need to use the pump pressure switch. Yes the Shorter stiff wall hose is likely to react differently to softer walled hose so I  would expect you to see a difference.

I do feel that once you have the system set up the way that suits you the delay will come down particularly as the control will not always be at the start of the DE test cycle. I take your point re information on the DE test.

Spruce thank you for your comments that is an interesting idea and one I will look into.

[Spruce]

The new V11 controller has a number of features that the older analogue would not have. The way the units react to water flow being stopped is one of these. The V11 is designed to protect he system while in DE and avoid the need to use the pump pressure switch. Yes the Shorter stiff wall hose is likely to react differently to softer walled hose so I  would expect you to see a difference.

I do feel that once you have the system set up the way that suits you the delay will come down particularly as the control will not always be at the start of the DE test cycle. I take your point re information on the DE test.

Spruce thank you for your comments that is an interesting idea and one I will look into.

Hi Ian,

TBH its not an ideal solution.  Any air in the system will expand when the pressure is released and force water out in an uncontrolled way.

I'm a bit of lazy when it comes to connecting my hose reel to my outside van port. I never bleed the hose. So an air pocket is pumped through the hose reel. Sometimes if I just have a window or 2 to do, I've usually finished before the air bubble has been pushed out of the hose jets. Disconnecting the hose at the hose reel always seems to cause a jet of water back out of the hose reel connector.

Water doesn't expand and compress, where air does. This is why we used water to test air compressor receivers before issuing a safety test certificate. An air receiver blew up on a mine once that was filled with compressed air when the pressure relief valve failed (or that's what the report said.) The explosion blew the compressor shed up and they found the dished end about 2 miles away.

Nowadays, the 4 second maximum delay is the least of my worries. Just getting through the working day has now taken on a greater priority. But I can understand how a younger person would also feel about this. That 4 seconds isn't even half of a deep breath but when you are waiting for the water to start up it can seem like an eternity.