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jk999

  • Posts: 2091
citroen Berlingo 1.6 hdi
« on: April 18, 2015, 08:16:38 pm »
I have seen  one imaculate condition in and out been on a wild  goose chase for three weeks looking but nowt but crap walked into Bridlington  town centre today and this van was parked up  for sale was gonna  take it for test drive until  a mechanic I know told me to stay clear off 1.6hdi engines now I don't know what to do . Does any off you guys own one at all if so have they had any problems  at all

scud

  • Posts: 683
Re: citroen Berlingo 1.6 hdi
« Reply #1 on: April 18, 2015, 08:43:09 pm »
  I've had one since new in 2008, done 62000 miles and the engine hasn't missed a beat, the gearbox dropped its oil and knackered the bearings a few weeks ago, but other than that it's been no problem.
As with all modern deisel engines, servicing is the key and oil needs changing on time every time.

the king

  • Posts: 1442
Re: citroen Berlingo 1.6 hdi
« Reply #2 on: April 18, 2015, 09:13:58 pm »
ive also hurd horror storys about the 1.6hdi even if there serviced on time but my custmer has one a berlingo car an its got 80k odd on it had it since 30k odd an its bin a little gem if i had one ide drop the sump every oil change an clean the oil pick up feed pipe gorse as there prone to blocking these engines run hotter than most an the oil cruds up quicker so oil changes need doing on the button or just b 4 things to watch out for is injectores wrking lose oil pick up feed pipe blocking and dpf can b a nte mare my custmer does lots of moter way milege so dpf wont b an issue but in r game we r start stop so its not good for us realy blanking off the egr will b a good ider to on the 1.6hdi as it will help keep the oil cleaner.it would b nce to here  what spruce  has to say as i think he no's about engines?

ChumBucket

Re: citroen Berlingo 1.6 hdi
« Reply #3 on: April 18, 2015, 11:09:30 pm »
Deffo blank off the EGR valve, it improves things no end!!

jk999

  • Posts: 2091
Re: citroen Berlingo 1.6 hdi
« Reply #4 on: April 18, 2015, 11:24:49 pm »
It's a citroen dispatch  I would rather have ,looked at five so far so getting a bit fed up  off looking  now . Do I take the plunge  with the Berlingo or wait for the right dispatch  to come along .

ChumBucket

Re: citroen Berlingo 1.6 hdi
« Reply #5 on: April 18, 2015, 11:32:44 pm »
It's a citroen dispatch  I would rather have ,looked at five so far so getting a bit fed up  off looking  now . Do I take the plunge  with the Berlingo or wait for the right dispatch  to come along .

Wait for the dispatch. I've had 6 years with a kangoo & 4.5 years with a doblo. I now have a dispatch & it's great size van for wfp, three seats up front too.

Spruce

  • Posts: 8465
Re: citroen Berlingo 1.6 hdi
« Reply #6 on: April 19, 2015, 09:42:24 am »
I have seen  one imaculate condition in and out been on a wild  goose chase for three weeks looking but nowt but crap walked into Bridlington  town centre today and this van was parked up  for sale was gonna  take it for test drive until  a mechanic I know told me to stay clear off 1.6hdi engines now I don't know what to do . Does any off you guys own one at all if so have they had any problems  at all

My advise is to check the detail of the service history of the vehicle you are looking at. If its a main dealer service history you have to presume that the servicing has been done according to Citroen's servicing policy that all dealerships sign up to. Whilst inspecting the vehicle, take the dip stick out and inspect the oil. Is it thick and gooey? Does it feel gritty? If you aren't happy, walk away.

The oil needs to be warm/hot when drained out through the drain plug on the sump. The vehicle has to be level and draining the oil has to take place over a certain length of time. The correct oil need s to be used for that engine - period, not some cheap supermarket 'that will do' stuff.

So when you talk to the owner, slowly pry out of him what work has been done on the van. Usually they will boast about what they have had to replace. It needed a new battery the other day could be exactly that, but it could also indicate that the starter motor is faulty as its drawing too much current from the battery. So you need to consider a new starter if you decide to make an offer.

Again some boast that they have just fitted a new turbo so that will do you for years. This is when I would pry for more info. Why was the turbo faulty? What was replaced etc.? Replacing a blown turbo is just part of the issue. Citroen under warranty will replace the turbo, oil pump including the pickup pipe and filter, all oil lines to and from the turbo. They also replace other components in the fuel system depending on the turbo failure.

If someone has said that they have just replaced the turbo, I would probably then just walk away as I couldn't take the chance of reliable motoring with that vehicle. If the turbo has just been replaced and nothing else done, then the turbo will fail again very shortly, leaving you with a very big repair bill.

 Having worked in the industry for many years, my experience is that sometimes mechanics aren't the most informed TBH.  They can be very good at their job, but at repair/workshop level, they can't see the whole picture. How many vehicles are sold with that engine, what percentage of failures are there etc.? Was the vehicle serviced regularly? Did a 'back street' garage just suck the old oil out of the engine through the drip stick tube?  If you don't have that information, you can't make an informed decision.

The motor engineering side of Teesside Motor Factors survives on fault diagnoses across all vehicle ranges. Their main business in years gone by was engine rebores, crankshaft regrinds etc, but as most modern engines can't be rebored they have had to refocus their business.  He told me a while back that in his experience, the 1.6 hdi engine is the best out there - better than the 2.0 hdi. His opinion, yes and based on his experience, but totally opposite to your mates experience.

He told me that what you need to be very wary of is the new vehicles that are coming out with timing chains. He is seeing new Vauxhalls, BMW's and VW's with less than 10k with engines in 'limp mode'.  He had a BMW and two VW Golfs in his workshop when I was there that were sent to him by the main agents as their mechanics were unable to identify why the ECU was putting the engines into limp mode when they could find nothing visually wrong.  Apparently the sensors pick up the slightest stretch in the chain and put the car into limp mode. He expects that the ECU code will be rewritten to allow a greater tolerance between the sensor readings and application. But in the meantime, owners of new cars are again having to put up with this. Cambelts are now very reliable, so why are they going back to chains he asks?
Success is 1% inspiration, 98% perspiration and 2% attention to detail!

The older I get, the better I was ;)

andyM

  • Posts: 6100
Re: citroen Berlingo 1.6 hdi
« Reply #7 on: April 19, 2015, 12:16:13 pm »
I test drove a 2010 1.6 hdi Citroen Dispatch with 30,000 miles on the clock about 18 months ago when I was looking for another van.
But I ended up buying a 1.6 hdi Peugeot Partner which was a much better vehicle to drive in my opinion.
The Citroen Dispatch obviously had more load space but I found the pedals seemed a bit close together? and it didn't seem to go as well as the smaller Partner.   
As Spruce has outlined regular servicing is extremely important, the 1.6 hdi needs regular oil and filter changes with a good quality fully synthetic oil as recommended by the manufacturer.
One of the Plebs

Bill Troop

  • Posts: 23
Re: citroen Berlingo 1.6 hdi
« Reply #8 on: April 19, 2015, 02:12:52 pm »
I have used a Berlingo 1.6 hdi  2008 for the last four years.
It has been super reliable, great on fuel, and a pleasure
To drive.
If it has been properly serviced it should give no problems
I have recently seen one with 245.000 miles recorded
And still performing well.

jk999

  • Posts: 2091
Re: citroen Berlingo 1.6 hdi
« Reply #9 on: April 19, 2015, 04:17:01 pm »
Cheers for that theres alot off info there to take in , I understand about the regular oil n filter change . You here it all time dont touch this vehicle n dont touch that one but at the end off the day I suppose its how you look after it , again cheers for all the info

the king

  • Posts: 1442
Re: citroen Berlingo 1.6 hdi
« Reply #10 on: April 19, 2015, 08:53:52 pm »
spruce do u no if the new vivaro 1.6cdti is the same engine as the 1.6hdi in the dispatch/expert/ berlingo ect? or is it vauxhall own engine  :)

Spruce

  • Posts: 8465
Re: citroen Berlingo 1.6 hdi
« Reply #11 on: April 19, 2015, 08:57:21 pm »
spruce do u no if the new vivaro 1.6cdti is the same engine as the 1.6hdi in the dispatch/expert/ berlingo ect? or is it vauxhall own engine  :)

Its Renault's common rail engine so isn't the same as the PSA/Ford engine. Its the competition.
Success is 1% inspiration, 98% perspiration and 2% attention to detail!

The older I get, the better I was ;)

the king

  • Posts: 1442
Re: citroen Berlingo 1.6 hdi
« Reply #12 on: April 19, 2015, 09:03:17 pm »
im not shore how do u rate that engine beta than the  hdi pug engine and beta than the vauxhall 2.0 m9r engine

Spruce

  • Posts: 8465
Re: citroen Berlingo 1.6 hdi New
« Reply #13 on: April 19, 2015, 10:23:05 pm »
im not shore how do u rate that engine beta than the  hdi pug engine and beta than the vauxhall 2.0 m9r engine

Owners of vehicles with that M9R engine fitted have certainly experienced injector problems leading to very costly repairs. The problem has been much bigger than Renault/Vauxhall have admitted.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/articles/WTpKv9M20KS4Xy8DlWGQxL/vauxhall-nissan-and-renault-vans

A customer of ours bought a 1 year old Trafic van a couple of years ago and within a few months experienced major engine issues. After much of a fight, Renault eventually agreed to replace the whole engine, which would have cost my customer over £5000 had he had to fork out the money for it. But he was without his van for a couple of months and had to fight Renault every step of the way, even although the van was in warranty.

I'm of the old school and still think that the best engine out there is the 2.0 hdi. Its better than the 2.2 hdi - even Citroen admitted that when I worked for them. But the 2.2 stayed as they could do more with that engine when it came to emissions. I think that this Euro emission standards will eventually kill the diesel engine altogether and we will then see petrol engines back in commercial vehicles.

But its interesting that VAG have upgraded their 1.9 tdi engine to a 2.0 liter, where PSA have moved away from the 2.0 variants I'm sorry to say. But they know more than I do.

I was disappointed when the first 1.6 hdi engine came out in the Picasso. They boosted the power to 110hp to equal that of the 2.0 hdi in the C5, but only in 3rd gear. This was done with turbo boost which I'm not altogether happy with. Its additional heat. But that 1.6hdi 110 hp wasn't as driveable as the 2.0 hdi 90hp in the same vehicle - low down torque comes from engine size which isn't the same as turbo boost.

In South Africa the 1.4tdi VW Polo has a reputation of failed turbo's. The heat in summer combined with high altitude (2000m above sea level means the air is 20% less dense than at sea level) are the cause. VW don't fit that engine anymore. Most engines with turbos have overheating issues in that country; one of the reasons why petrol engines will always be the favoured power source. Normally aspirated diesel engines are fine, but add a turbo is a recipe for disaster. But normally aspirated engines aren't made any longer.

The reason why the 1.6 hdi became favourable with PSA vehicles was because of weight. An 800 LX Berlingo 2.0 hdi prior to  2003 had a full 800 kg capacity whilst still sitting in the car derived van market sector. This meant that speed limits on single carriage road and motorways were the same as a standard car.
After 2003 a EU ruling meant the front end had to be redesigned; the front bonnet needed to be straighter or more level - less aerodynamic.  This was because a pedestrian had more chance of survival if hit but a van at 30 mph than with a van with a more sloping bonnet. They increased the minimum height between the top of the engine and the bonnet. The extra material used added weight to the body so reduced the payload of the 2003 Berlingo to 788kgs. But to achieve this payload they also need to move the van up into the next weight category, so the van now heavier, had slower speed limits applied, 50 mph on single carriage road and 60 on dual carriage roads.

So to get the Berlingo back into the lower tax category and increase the payload back to 800 kgs, the 1.6 was introduced. Originally, it was going to be the newly launched 1.4hdi.  A group of mechanics from each dealership were in Slough to be trained on the 1.4, but in the end they never fitted it.   Another reason for the 1.6 was that the Kangoo had the 1.5dci engine and were benefiting from the lighter vehicle and higher payloads. (PSA and Renault don't get along very well together, much like Ford and GM in America.)

The 2.0 hdi C5 with the 110 hp motor was the best caravan tow vehicle of the time, much better than the 2.2 hdi fitted to the same C5.
When they did a facelift of the C5 in 2004 they introduced the 1.6hdi in 110hp format. It won't pull a caravan. Citroen were forced to reintroduce the 2.0hdi back into the C5 but as a 136hp engine. That tells you why I don't think much of the 1.6hdi. But that's my personal opinion and is based on how I see things. Others will argue that I'm wrong, and I accept that.

It also will explain why I will try to run my 2004 Citroen Relay 2.0hdi as long as I possibly can. I don't fancy all the new dpf filters and all the other emissions related stuff that new vans have to comply with as its more expense and drama.

I meant to add that we will have to replace my son's 2.0 hdi 2002 Peugeot Partner 800lx van sometime. I will have no qualms about buying a replacement with a 1.6 hdi engine, provided it fits the bill of being well maintained - just as I advised the OP. But for me it would need to be the 92hp engine rather than the 70hp unit.




Success is 1% inspiration, 98% perspiration and 2% attention to detail!

The older I get, the better I was ;)