[Simon Gerrard]

I'm not sure spreading urine and all the other nasties around the place with a pad is the best idea. I would have explained that to him and only gone with LM if he insisted after having been advised.

Simon

[mr muzzy]

the job I done was a gents new flat not a residential home,the carpets were quite clean he asked for lm 

[Darran Pryce]

I agree with Simon. We clean 3 care homes on a reg basis.  If we get told its urine, we use the beast.  

Most of the rooms are just traffic from wheel chairs/traffic so encap is more than good enough.  Well that is what we have found.

We did a real stinker not long back, canteen area for a large large company, Dynamall and pad brought the lot up, and I mean the lot.

We also do some meeting rooms for the nhs in Leeds, a lot of traffic, once again, dynamall and oreck come out to play, and works evey time. Lifting everything.

Like I have said before some jobs Lm is not good enough, but for most jobs we don't have any issues.

We did 13 carpets today and 19 yesterday in three properties all cleaned with LM.  All came up like new.

[CleanerCarpets]

gotta say i have used Dynamall and i havent found it to be the best all round encap. Its good in the right situation, but other encaps or LM solutions work better with different soiling.

I dont think its about saying LM is best or HWE is best, or saying Dynamall for all encapping etc etc, its about learning the chemistry of whats going on and cleaning it so you get the best result for the customer. People get wrapped up in LM being quicker and easier, but sometimes it will genuinely get a better result and sometimes its better for the customer if they are elderly etc and need the room back in action asap.

I did a lounge/diner, stairs and landing last week for a fussy old lady. She had had it cleaned twice before by other people and she was telling me on the quote what i would and wouldnt be able to achieve - based on her previous cleans.

From the carpet type and soiling i knew LM was the way to go and would give me the best result. She phoned yday and she said she felt she had to ring as she was so delighted with the results - the previous 2 cleaners had said they wouldnt be able to get the dark marking out from in front of the chairs/sofa's. I knew what the soiling was and from experience what would work best and that HWE wouldnt work on improving it as well as LM. It worked, she is recommending me to all and all is good.

You have got to try different products and systems and keep learning all the time. I was a Solutions follower for a long time and got blinded by the hype - dont get me wrong, i got good results but i realize now i made the solutions work for me, now i have found other solutions that work out of the pot without tinkering.

It wasnt a bad thing, i learnt a lot about chemistry along the way, but dont get blindfolded in one direction or one product cos when it dont work you need to have an idea why and what else may

[wayne zabel]

One of my main problems as a CC is getting areas in front of sofas improved,its normally wear as much as soiling.How does cleaning with LM get better results than HWE.

[mark_roberts]

Personally I find you must thoroughly Prevac using a LM method in residential and for that reason it takes longer than TM HWE.

So you need to charge more.

Mark

[Mike Halliday]

I've said before that LM is like giving an aspirin for  backache, it cures the symptoms But the problem is still there......but the person is happy because the pain has gone.

Just because the customer is happy with a result does not justify that a perticuler method of cleaning is acceptable. Like the backache all they see is an  immediate result, not a long term solving of the problem.

[Simon Gerrard]

Carpet cleaners are often guilty of seeing what they want to see. I carried a variety of LM products with me on every job and wherever the opportunity arose gave them a whirl (excuse the pun) and when compared to the result with a TM, the LM result was dismal - but might well have been acceptable if that were all that I had. The client may also have accepted the LM result, not knowing that the result could have been so much better if the CC had the proper range of equipment. I think as a professional carpet cleaner it is important to regularly put to the test what you currently call acceptable and try different techniques, chemicals and systems and only offer what you deem to be the very best to your customers.

Simon

[CleanerCarpets]

To Simon & Mike - dont get me wrong, i am not a LM only cleaner. HWE is my main choice of clean but i feel your comments and degrading of LM cleaning is wrong and just actually shows your lack or skill with it and ignorance to it.

I am sure you will agree it has took years to perfect your methods with your TM and you continue to learn all the time. Any one can clean with a TM straight away, but to do it right and perfect it will take years of trial and error.

The same can be said for LM cleaning, when to use it, what to use in different circumstances and the all round chemistry of it. The times i have heard TM users saying they have used LM and couldnt tell any difference after the clean - well i am sorry if you have done that then you have done it wrong and its your fault, not the method.

The example job i gave you earlier in the post referred to a lady who had had the carpets cleaned twice by 2 different cleaners to me over the years - both with HWE. I used LM and on this occasion it was right, she is over the moon and the result was better - whether you believe that or disregard that i dont care - its your loss if you cant get over the fact you have invested in a TM that can be beaten by other methods on some occasions. And your ever pounding comments on 'wait till a few months after the clean and look at the carpet then' is ignorant and boring as well, i have been doing carpet cleaning long enough to have revisited many LM jobs years down the line to see they have not resoiled any different or more than HWE cleans.

I bought a back up portable off a retired cleaner a few years ago - he was very successful and had done very well out of the business, doing a lot of big commercial contracts. He gave me some pearls of wisdom, he had started portable, progressed to lower end TM's and advanced to top end TM's. After a lot of years and trialing LM and TM back to back on the commercials etc he came to the conclusion portables and LM was indeed the best combination and he advised me not to get sucked into the 'you must have a TM' scenario spouted by many. I think he was right - he certainly knew his onions and was a very clever guy in business and if i do half as well as him i will be happy. His beautiful big house and cars in Solihull even though he was retired were testament to that.

My advice is dont loose sight we are a business, we make money by cleaning and doing that to the best we can at the most cost effective way with good customer retention and service. There are different ways to doing that without spending 20k on a TM.

Over the last 10 years of being in this industry i have seen 3 of my direct competitors go - all of which ran TM's. I am still here, busy and making ends meet. All with a simple porty and LM combination!!!!

I dont get fooled by the 'mine is bigger than yours' brigade - just making up for smaller things if you ask me!!

[Simon Gerrard]

Cleaner carpets,
I assume you have a name, why not use it?
I think you have misunderstood my point. I'm not against LM or encap, indeed have both systems and use them when appropriate, indeed in the right circumstances you could say I'm a real fan of encap.
I should have been clearer and not left my comments open to being read as 'every job' where it should have said 'every domestic job.' What concerns me as a professional is the rise of the encap only cc'ers, who with only the most basic equipment and knowledge encap every carpet, regardless of whether or not it is the best option, but encap it anyway because it is their only option. So I tried encap /LM on as many domestic jobs as I could for comparison purposes, just to see if you really could encap everything.

This has got absolutely nothing to do with TM versus LM - nothing, so you've misread that completely.
I've been cleaning carpets for over 37 years and one thing I have learned for certain is; if you want to consider yourself a professional then make sure you have in your van the means to clean any carpet in any location, regardless of age or condition. My vans are equipped to do exactly that and when I get to a job I choose which system,  technique, chemical combination is the best to produce the very best result for the client and that includes the systems you accuse me of being ignorant of.

Simon

[Mike Halliday]

Cleaner carpets, Out of interest which part of this comment gives you the opinion that I lack the skill and I am ignorant of LM cleaning.....

I've said before that LM is like giving an aspirin for  backache, it cures the symptoms But the problem is still there......but the person is happy because the pain has gone.

Just because the customer is happy with a result does not justify that a perticuler method of cleaning is acceptable. Like the backache all they see is an  immediate result, not a long term solving of the problem.

Do you understand the analogy of my example?

[Shaun_Ashmore]

I remember mick saying may be about 6-7 years ago that he'd mastered lm cleaning I think he tried every pad, bonnet or brush under the sun as well as chemicals including the defunct argosheen, the science behind it all is interesting the speed can be incredible but the cleaning can be disappointing.

Shaun

[peter maybury]

To be perfectly honest there is no hope. Calling a single vac machine a beast really does say it all.
It has to be a wind up, people cannot really be serious.
It is like reading the domestic advice forums " clean like a pro with a rug doctor and stardrops" you can forgive that stupidity in the public what do they know about carpet cleaning?
To suggest that Darren is bringing anything new to the industry really does show the level of intelligence on here.
Nothing against Darren, I just think that some of you need some training just to understand that you do not go to bed as one thing and wake up the next morning as an expert carpet cleaner.



Peter

[Darran Pryce]

Peter

Might not be old school at it and cleaned carpets for 100 years, yes 5 years or so, but I'm know what I'm doing! I can also call my machine whatever I like.  Once thing I don't do is get into a slagging match on here like so many of you do.  I have the best machine, oh yes I have a TM or I do this, and mine is bigger than yours!!!

Said before, if custy is happy, then I'm happy.  I have lots of huge contracts most from recommendations, So I must be doing something right!

I'm no fool so please don't take me as one!

[CleanerCarpets]

I went to bed last night and did indeed wake up as an expert carpet cleaner - how weird is that!?!

2 jobs today - 10 quid tip on both, happy customers!!

One day I might wake up though and be at the same dizzy heights of cleaning as Peter and then I will know I've made it!! Lol, big old dinosaurs move very, very slowly

[SteveAllan]

LM has its place. Today on my first job used Surround on couple of bedrooms and stairs and landing, HWE on lounge though as it needed a bit extra, custy over the moon, she seen me on the last bit and assumed i did the whole job HWE I will be using LM more and more where i can

[Carpet Dawg]

why did you not just hwe the lot steve? surely a waste of time taking two systems in to the house no?

[neil 47]

carpet dawg

I agree , I have tried using two systems and it takes longer , I also find that lm takes just as long as HWE .

[Steven Butler]

I'm with Darran.

You build your business on customer satisfaction, if they are happy all is good, referrals, recommendations etc.....

As for machines, I have the same beast, I know people say it's underpowered etc but the results it's giving I really don't see the need for anything more powerful.

At the end of the day carpet cleaning isn't just about the extraction machine is it, the vac, the choice of pre spray, aggitation...they are all important.

[peter maybury]

I first started in 1989. I had a von Schrader upholstery machine, a von Schrader carpet machine and a single vac extractor. My marketing was based on dry in one hour and so used the von Schrader machines on a daily basis.
I quickly realised the limitations with lm cleaning and did not have the solutions that are available today so began adding my own oxidising agents, brighteners and playing about with the p.h. level. Alcohol that enabled me to go over and over badly soiled areas over and over again  and still allow me to get a fast drying time.  We did have large areas that we were dry foaming at that time but it was always a matter of deciding which system works better for the situation. Dirty areas do take a lot longer to do with a lesser system so why waste the time in the first place anyway?
Encapping is particularly good for tiles or contract stick down, because you do not get the air flow through the product that you get with normal carpet products. In the domestic market I found few situations where lm would give me a better result than hwe and so professional pride and my inability to sell to people an inferior system, led me to improve the hwe equipment I had. I did my first training course a few months after start up and learnt that a single vac machine is not adequate and heat is also needed.
After getting a new machine the gap between encapping result and hwe got bigger.
For me now my methods with hwe have improved along with the equipment and agitation etc and now the gap between the two is even bigger, because I was doing what the chemical manufacturers are doing now, 20 years ago.
When I had a single vac machine and using warm water there was not so much difference between the two but when I had something much better to compare it to the difference was vast.
If on start up I had said to myself that my customers are happy then why should I improve then I would never have learnt anything.
Every one believes they have satisfied customers, even the worst cleaners, When I started off my abilities were very limited but I still had satisfied customers. People on here do make comments about things they know nothing about.

This dinosaur here has the sense to realise that after attending many, training courses and spending over 20 years improving, I still do not know everything. What I can do is talk from experience with facts.
There are many aspects about carpet cleaning, you will get better results the more you can resolve.
You need always to be looking to improve rather that saying I am doing it right now. If you competitors come along and offer a better service at a reduced price then your existing customers might never come back to you for the feeling of being fleeced.
Do you really think that it is a sensible attitude to want to stay with the equipment and methods you have now do you not want to evolve.
Personally I always want better more productive equipment, maybe that  is what makes me such a dinasaur.
I live in a very competitive area where we  had a lot of very good, well equipped competition, we have to stay competitive to survive.
Peter