[stuart mc]

in order to understand this, we have to stop being selfish and stop worrying about us and our vans, you could be hitting a family of five head on, if you have a system strapped down correctly, as each anchor point strap etc fails, it slows down and reduces the forward force, protecting you and the car of five, a bolted down system will protect you but go straight through the car of five like a runaway train, then your are buggered anyway

hope that makes sense

[Dave Willis]

Your post whilst strictly factual, is misleading and not addressing anything whats been posted.

Ever looked at a chassis? You'll find they are full of holes already.

As far as i'm aware anything less than about 3.5Ton gross vehicle weight does not have a chassis. They are monoqouque construction, which is basicaslly the vehicle body strength is all in the shell, albeit with some additional ribbing. Drilling into, squashing or clamping this ribbing compromises the integrity of it.
 If you're refering to holes already pre drilled into conventional chassis, i.e 3.5T tranny van, they are usually there for a purpose. I.e modification to uprated suspension, tipper body, luton body etc.

Ratchet straps are useless if the rings aren't rated at least the same or above. No point having a 5 tonne strap on a noodle welded to the wheel arch (as my dispatch was).

You'll find that load lashing points do indeed meet the vehicles saftey criteria. Although if someone chooses to fit say.....an upright tank near the bulkhead and secure this (which is probably somewhere near the total payload) then indeed just using a few of the lashing points may not really suffice.
   I've said it before and i'll say it again, the current marketting blurb from any tank/frame/manufacturers/fitters/crash testers all focuses on one thing..........the tank frame retains its integrity in an accident. Totally rips the arse out you're van, but the frames fine. They all follow a bolt through the floor method. Its archaic, crap and a case of following what everyone else has done. The tanks need securing in the vehicle other than bolting through the floor, its very easy to do and a lot safer and it doesn't trash your van in a shunt.
 The current crash test videos all compare a floor bolted weak frame giving way in an sudden stop, the they show the same thing with their "safe frame" ripping out a floor, but staying intact. So thats it, there only them two options? Don't think so.
  But like everything, people are selective in what they want to see. Often Dave you shudder at people with home made tanks, gas heaters etc.. and think nothing of flouting a 20mph saftey limit? We all have our own standards eh? Of course i'm sure that YOU personally will be fine driving at 40mph through a 20mph limit with a saftey water tank fitted, even though your insurance have deemed you high risk and bumped your premium that you complained about. Wasn't your fault though? I get that.
 And if anyones further interested in vehicle fluid tanks and saftey, go check out any artics 450 litre diesel tank on the side of it and see how its secured. I've never heard of one coming off and hurting anyone. Looks to me like two metal bands and four small bolts. but eh, what do i know !!

Flipping 'eck bit strong isn't it? You can fit a system that's been tested or you can lash your own system up that nobody has tested. Choice is yours. My van appears to have a chassis (Toyota) it also has several drilled and shaped holes in it too. I'm not too bothered about the van being a write off in a crash, the only thing I want to know is that I've done as much as possible to ensure I'll survive (or anyone else in the cab). If I fit ratchet straps with say a six mill thick hook to some crappy thin french welded on noodle of half the diameter then I'm pretty sure it's going to rip it off.
 in no time at all.
Bulk heads? Yes good idea but they don't seem that thick to me.

Unfortunately nobody has crash tested a big tank held in with ratchet straps and chewing gum to convince me it's the way to go. If they had and I could see the evidence then I might do the same.

From a suppliers point of view - what more can they do? They have designed a system that seems to work, tested it and offered it up for sale. You don't have to buy one but I would purely because the alternative hasn't been shown to be safe.


PS I ran a Dispatch for a couple of years with a bodged up ratchet strapped 650l tank in the back. However, I was never sure it was going to withstand a crash so the next vehicle I bought had a bolted in system and cage and bulkhead. I just felt that at the time I had done the best I could possibly do to make it safe, hopefully I'll not test it out.

[CleanClear]

Flipping 'eck bit strong isn't it? You can fit a system that's been tested or you can lash your own system up that nobody has tested. Choice is yours.

Yeah sorry about that. But it does my nut in fellas (i'm not specifying you)...saying bolt through the chassis, most of them havn't got one to bolt to.
 As you say people can make their own mind up. And i'm certainley not going to argue a point that one of these "crash tested "systems are no good.
 I'm saying they're over hyped using buzzwords...saftey, tested,peace of mind etc..oh, and now some are offering certificates for your insurance company, and insurance companies are starting to ask. Thats a worry.
  Facts are no one to date has been hurt by a tank. No crash tests have failed for products designed to keep thing in the van. The only failed test you'll see is the purposely set up IBC bolted to the floor with nothing but a flimsy ally frame to support the thin plastic tank. No one has to do any real research, its not rocket science to secure a tank. But it is expensive to pay MIRA Ltd ( a profit making company) for a test, and of course manufacturers want to recoup.
  There's very specific requirements now for load security and saftey, and without goig through all the waffle about it, there's two important points to meet. Not only will they satisfy the law, they'll also keep you safe............
1. Your tank will need to be secured down to the floor bed.
 2. it should not be able to move forward.

Also, i'm just waffling on here.....
  the test are not done in different vehicles, they're not done on different size/layout of tanks? So whats the concept that has "passed the saftey test" , a strong metal frame?
 We're at a bizzare stage now whereby Ionics tested a 1000 litre tank and it passed a MIRA test. They now sell for example a 400 litre and frame, not them selves but through their budget retail outlet , puresomething or other and because its a sister company they think they have the same accreditation. So they sell a 400 litre certified tank based on the fact their paret company tested a 1000 litre one.
  Its total hype, i've said my piece and i'm out !!!

[telfordwindowclnr]

I've got a 1000L IBC in a van. It has been fitted by these guys, very professional.
http://www.vantagevcltd.co.uk/

I have no fears with it.

[Jonny 87]

That's interesting actually.......

Has there ever been a case of injury caused by a water tank in the back of the van?

You'd think with that many WFP guys there is bound to have been some big accidents with "un crash tested" systems.