[md_cleaning]

I've been using  formula 90 powder for a while now and it seems a great product but  am thinking of going onto the liquid version as think it'll be better for my pump, but is the liquid as good?
Dave

[john martin]

 Main difference is the powder uses Sodium carbonate while the liquid version uses a sodium salt more suitable for liquid suspension .
The powder smells different , probably the orange oil it contains .

Doubt if i would know the difference in cleaning results  ... i use the liquid a fair bit because like u say it dissolves easy .

[md_cleaning]

Thanks John, I have a JAG and it says not to use anything through the pump and while I don't 90% of the time on mingers you need that bit extra so would be happier if when I need it I can run liquid through rather than powder.

[Mike Halliday]

not running detergent through a pump is waffle, look a the manufacture of the machine and see if they sell in tank detergents, if they say don'nt put detergents through the pump are they saying that you can use thier machine but not thier chemicals

good quality chemicals don't harm a pump,i say good quality as i know a British company that sells a powdered detergent that never fully dissolves and block all your filters.

truckmount user make a stock solution of F90 powder which contains a 100times the powder than you use in your portable and it still fully dissolves...

i would stick with the powder, just make sure it gets a good stir in your bucket before putting it into your machine.


the words "powders knacker your pump" are usually proceeded by "we can't honour the guarentee because...."

 a nifty little get out clause

[md_cleaning]

That had occurred to me Mike, but nice to hear someone who knows what they're talking about tell me, formula 90 is a very fine powder to not all rough like the Alltec powder, forget the name, that I used to use.

[fibresafe]

Powdered Formula 90 and Liquid Formula 90 are actually quite different - one is buffered, the other isn't.

Powdered Formula 90 should always to dilute to the same pH value. With Liquid Formula 90 the stronger the mix, the higher the pH goes up. That's why Liquid Formula 90 is Woolsafe approved at 500:1 but not when you mix it up stronger.

[Carpet Dawg]

I don't think I couldn't clean without F90 powder in the tank, wouldn't feel right lol

Like Mike says, its unlikely that a detergent would damage a pump. As long as you dissolve nicely with hot water in a bucket before putting it in the machine. I use a metal wisk to completely dissolve the powder. Looks poofy but works.

Running the pump dry too many times and putting hot water (over 60 degrees) through a pump would have a more damaging effect than using detergents.

[john martin]

Powdered Formula 90 and Liquid Formula 90 are actually quite different - one is buffered, the other isn't.

Powdered Formula 90 should always to dilute to the same pH value. With Liquid Formula 90 the stronger the mix, the higher the pH goes up. That's why Liquid Formula 90 is Woolsafe approved at 500:1 but not when you mix it up stronger.

Fibersafe  ... you know vac motors and chemicals ... you should post more   

Why do recon they make it unbuffered  , is it to make its uses more flexible for the user ?  It mentions a Chelating Agent ... which is usually Edta , so perhaps its buffered to some degree ?

[oliver collins]

Hi

I have heard that f90 liquid is very foamy.the formula is very different apparently so John Kelly tells me,the powder has a solvent in the mix which makes it so effective at cleaning and it is encapsulating as well 

Oliver Collins rise n shine cleaning

[Marcin Stepis]

How do You guys use it by the way? Do use put it in rinse water? Can it be use as a pre-spray ?
Have you got a good results using it ? Can I use it with acid rinse in rinse water?

I have a bottle of liquid Formula 90 but I never used it.

[john martin]

 Its a pretty regular detergent mix  ...  put a dash into an inline sprayer of whatever you have  ...  use a bit intank if you like and use heat if u have it .  perhaps use the recommended dilution for wool as fibersafe points out and acid rince if you like .
Lots of ways to use it  ...
You could even use it like this if you want   

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WF1sQ75P38w

[stuart_clark]

I have used both powder and liquid but I prefer the powder by far ! Itsright that the liquid causes foam build up and you fi d that you need a huge amount of de foamer to supress the foam, ive used chemspecpowders through pumptec pumps for over eight years now with no ill effect on the pump! Saying all this I did have a problem with ultimate master a few years ago, and although Altec wouldn't admit to there chemical being corosive it definately distroyed three of my pumps, whitch is probably why they use a black anodised pump in there machines

[john martin]

Nothing unusual in Ultimate Master looking at the info sheet  .   It says mostly Phosphates and carbonates ...  if thats percarbonate  .. it might the source of some deposits ?, i know if you dump chemspec Energizer( percarbonate) into a tank with an immersion , a deposit can build on the element  .   Probably cleared with an acid wash . 
Ultimate master is good stuff though .

[stuart_clark]

Ultimate isa great detergent chemical, but it ruinspumps thats all ! The pumptec type anyway

[Adrian Walton]

I have used both powder and liquid but I prefer the powder by far ! Itsright that the liquid causes foam build up and you fi d that you need a huge amount of de foamer to supress the foam, ive used chemspecpowders through pumptec pumps for over eight years now with no ill effect on the pump! Saying all this I did have a problem with ultimate master a few years ago, and although Altec wouldn't admit to there chemical being corosive it definately distroyed three of my pumps, whitch is probably why they use a black anodised pump in there machines

I think they use the black anodised heads because there a lot more resistant to corrosion compared to the red, blue and gold ones, Ashbys use the black ones too.

[stuart_clark]

They are double the price of the blue ones

[Adrian Walton]

Not if they don't keep leaking and last four or five times longer, it would only need to go wrong once and its already more expencive in the the work you've lost.

[stuart_clark]

I have not used ultimate master for about three years and to date I have not had any more problems with any of my pumps!  Could be just coinsidence but i doubt it

[Darren O]

Ive been using F90 Liqid for the past 7 years never had a problem with foam the last time I bought defoamer was about 3 years ago and its still more than half full.When using a porty I think I use about 10-15ml for every 10 litres of water.