[Graeme Smith]

1) Does the type of polishing powder used play a part in orange peeling? lots of different powders out there Klindex have various if you look at other suppliers there are stacks. Or does it come down to trying to polish floors when they are not flat with pads??

2) Could something like Klindex Klimber system produce orange peel just by skipping the grits or not spending enough time on each grit

Basically what is the main factor(s) in orange peeling?

[Kev Martin]

Graeme

I should be charging a fortune for this but if you really want to understand here goes:

I am going to try and explain as briefly as possible:

How is "Orange Peeling" caused?

What type of abrasives are marble and granite polishing powders made of?

Well most marble polishing powders use aluminum oxide as the abrasive, oxalic acid as an accelerator and a
combination of other ingredients such as shellac, sulfur, salt, etc. which add color, lubrication,
etc. to the process.

A “hot” powder is one which contains over 50% oxalic acid.

Caution: Oxalic acid,  is used to speed the polishing process, however it can have a reverse effect if used incorrectly and can burn marble.

When this happens burnt marble has a characteristic dimpled appearance.  The stone will have a molten, plastic shine. This burned appearance is commonly called “orange peel,” for reasons that are obvious to anyone who sees it.

If you orange-peel the floor, you will either have to re-hone the floor to remove it or in extreme cases where a vitrification process was used you may even have to grind it and then re-hone it prior to going back to the polishing stage!

Are you confused yet? 

Kev Martin
Marblelife Ltd
Tiling Logistics

[Graeme Smith]

Seems dead straight forward to me

By the way what's the Oxalic acid content of KP85 compared to Hulk? Or are we into another topic- by my understanding Hulks a crystalliser and a different animal but is it different because of the oxalic content or what

Short answers only or it could be expensive

[Kev Martin]

Seems dead straight forward to me

By the way what's the Oxalic acid content of KP85 compared to Hulk? Or are we into another topic- by my understanding Hulks a crystalliser and a different animal but is it different because of the oxalic content or what

Short answers only or it could be expensive

Graeme

Very short answer!

No idea as Klindex would never disclose the formula for one of the best selling polishing powders in the World.
Secondly you need to compare Eggs with Eggs Hulk is a vitrification product and therefore works in a totally different way!

Kev Martin
Marblelife Ltd
Tiling Logistics

[Floor_Tony]

I'll go through this with you Graeme when you come down

[Graeme Smith]

Ok Thanks

[Jamie Pearson]

http://multimedia.3m.com/mws/mediawebserver?mwsId=11111FfKW5rDxIEe_3L18ILSqGfBq5fKTGd1qGd1q111111--

[martin shelley]

I would suggest you purchase some different polishes and try them out at different grit levels.

Compound polishing can be achieved even if honing is ceased at 600 or even 400 grit diamond pads.  However, the finish will have much greater longevity if the grinding is taken up to 1800 or 3000 diamond pads.  The reason is that the compound buffing needed to create a polish will be lighter because it will have to “close up” a much smaller scratch pattern.  If the polishing is less aggressive there will be less of an exchange of calcium-carbonate to calcium-oxalate which is weaker, there is less mineral breakdown needed to create the polish

Every time you make that exchange from calcium-carbonate to calcium-oxalate you create orange peel.  Its there on every factory finish but cant always been seen by the human eye.  All the info in on the net and reports have been published everywhere.  I have no background in chemistry, but take on board what I read and preform my own test.   

[Graeme Smith]

Posted the above a while ago so my knowledge has increased (a bit) but why do some crystallisation methods use wire wool and others like hulk not I assume to create heat.
Not a route I want to go down but interested in the why and how factor as many companies seem to use crystallisers as a normal routine method not because of other factors like an area being 24hr like a hotel lobby.

I guess from other posts crystallisers hide faults like lips being rounded off and being able to 'polish' 40m2 in a day or so for £500.00 as opposed to spending longer and the customer getting a bill for 2k
I think nulifes powder is essentially hulk which makes you quick but perhaps unethical unless you have a good reason to use it

[Jamie Pearson]

Are you confused yet? 

I am. I understand the crystaliser situation and have used these methods extensively in the past.

The thing that has skipped me by on any training I have done is why pads like Twister, KGS Flexis etc will also orange peel when used.

[Kev Martin]

Are you confused yet? 

I am. I understand the crystaliser situation and have used these methods extensively in the past.

The thing that has skipped me by on any training I have done is why pads like Twister, KGS Flexis etc will also orange peel when used.

Jamie

Think it through!  If you can't come up with the answer ring me and I will tell you.

Kev Martin
Tiling Logistics Ltd

[martin shelley]

Jamie i think it as Simple as this.

Twister have a red, white yellow and green pad.  Their pads are equal to the following grits, 400, 800, 1500 and 3000.

A spray diamond pad like a twister doesn't cut the floor flat as its not a solid block.  So what happens is the pad is cutting the soft parts buts not the hard.  For example, a resin based terrazzo with marble chipping, the twister will cut the soft parts (low spots) and then smooth out the high spots(hard part). As a results the soft or lower spots get lower and the high spots or harder spots like the resin stay high.  As result this is what creates the orange peel.  The opposite would be a cement based terrazzo with granite or glass chipping and it would cut the opposite way and create an alligator skin effect.  

Remember a green twister (3000 grit) is still a cutting grit, so,when used as a daily maintenance pad, will orange peel the floor over time.