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rp cleaning services

  • Posts: 111
tips on using wfp
« on: March 03, 2006, 05:03:57 pm »
just bought ionic pro 2 trailer system,nice bit of kit,so today for the first time praticed on my own house,the results were terrible,windows were spotty and there was smears,i put the machine on full flow,bloody hell i would not use it on anybodys windows with that much water going, it was like a flood.so i need some tips on the best way of using this machine and the best way of getting good results,i know i will have to pratice as i would not like to use the machine just yet on my customers windows.i still use traditional methods and my plan is to do top windows with the pole and bottoms traditional,any tips would be a great help,thank you

rob

WavieDavie

  • Posts: 951
Re: tips on using wfp
« Reply #1 on: March 03, 2006, 05:16:21 pm »
Didn't you get a user manual with a few hints and tips?
You're a Scottish window-cleaner? Licensed or not, get yourself along to www.slwcn.org right now !

Davie Park
Dalzell Window Cleaning Service - Edinburgh www.windowscleaner.co.uk

rp cleaning services

  • Posts: 111
Re: tips on using wfp
« Reply #2 on: March 03, 2006, 05:26:57 pm »
yes i got owners manual,and is quiet simple to use,its just the end results that have baffled me,why did the windows smear as i thought pure water is smear free,did i do wrong some where? what is the best way to use wfp to get the best results,and the best flow to use.cheers rob

steve massey

  • Posts: 69
Re: tips on using wfp
« Reply #3 on: March 03, 2006, 05:27:55 pm »
I have a ionics 650ltr commercial systerm, I have used it for 3 years and found it to be very good. This time of year you tend to struggle a bit with wfp the weather is against it and there is a lot of road salt on windows. I dont use it for houses just commercial but allways use it on full bore loads of water this time of year.

rp cleaning services

  • Posts: 111
Re: tips on using wfp
« Reply #4 on: March 03, 2006, 05:33:39 pm »
thanks steve,full bore it is

rah

  • Posts: 670
Re: tips on using wfp
« Reply #5 on: March 03, 2006, 06:11:11 pm »
Hi Steve

i have also been using a system for 3 yrs now, i have always used a nice gentle flow of water on residential properties, but take time in ensuring that the frames recieve a great deal of attention.

One thing to think about is that the vents above the windows are a pain in the arse, so much that on certain customers houses i don't attempt to clean them cos i know the outcome, well after three years i guess i should.

Rob
Life used to be full of up's and downs....now i hardly ever get up a ladder :) .

Re: tips on using wfp
« Reply #6 on: March 03, 2006, 06:26:46 pm »
Did you check the TDS of the water?  A brand-new RO filter has preservative in it; therefore you've got to run a certain amount of water through it first.

Also, what type of frames does your house have?

If they were really dirty, did you wash all the frames first, then return to wash all the glass and rinse thoroughly?

First WFP cleans are a pain!

rp cleaning services

  • Posts: 111
Re: tips on using wfp
« Reply #7 on: March 03, 2006, 06:54:08 pm »
hi tosh,water was okay 000,you are probably right about the ro being new,i am filling the tank up again and will try tommorow, maybe better results,my frames are upvc and have always been cleaned as when i clean windows i always clean frames and sills,for the last 6 weeks i have been using pure water with a dash of gg3 tds reading 10 on all of my customers windows ready for when i got the wfp,i was just hoping for better results and was shocked to see the smears and spots,i was hoping to use the system on monday as i have 8 houses which are all leaded but will have to get the ladders out as i do not feel confident yet to use the system on there houses, 5 of the houses are from somebody who used the pole system and they were not happy with the results,i want to be 100% confident in using the machine before being let lose on my customers as i have worked hard to build my round up and do not wish to lose a lot of custom due to me not being able to work correctly,any help would be most welcome., i could go on the ionic course but it will not be for a couple of months and cannot wait that long.rob

Re: tips on using wfp
« Reply #8 on: March 03, 2006, 07:20:03 pm »
Charlie,

I'm no WFP expert, but this is what I've read on this forum from more experienced users, and I followed it more or less, with good results.

On first WFP cleans; it's important to take your time.  Don't expect to see any significant increase in your earnings for at least three months.

1.   Scrub all the frames thoroughly and rinse them too.  When I say rinse, gently pass your brush over them to agitate the dirt off them.  Rinse again, using just your pure water, don't touch the frames with your brush.  Have another rinse just to make sure.

2.  Go back to your first window (I know it's a pain).  Scrub the top of the glass (left to right), scub the main window (up and down), scrub a bit at the very bottom (left to right).

Do it all again.

3.  Then rinse.  When I first started I rinsed lightly-dragging the brush head down the window, so that the bottom tips of my brush made contact with the window and the jet went above.

Then I rinsed again in a zig-zagging motion, still touching the window with the bottom part of my brush.

Then I rinsed again, with just the water, no contact with the brush on the window.

ALSO:

Think about your 'window-pane order'.  Frames cause problems.  If you're doing sash windows, you'll clean the top part, clean the transome bar (the middle bit of the frame), then clean the bottom.

But problems happen when the water from the top part of the sash window runs over the transome bar and dibbles (unseen) dirt on the bottom part.

So clean the tops of sash windows and the transome bar first, don't forget to rinse, then return after cleaning some other windows and clean the bottom section, being careful you don't re-wet the upper portion. 

Lessen your chances of dirt running onto a clean window.

Just remember that the initial extra-work you put into your first cleans will pay-off later and you'll win the confidence of your customers. 

By WFP clean 'three', the frames and glass are pretty clean anyway.  Just wash the frames quickly, scrub the glass twice (still thinking about 'pane order' and rinse quickly; twice; then off to your next window.

No doubt I'll be told I'm doing it wrong, or doing too much; but it worked for me.


rp cleaning services

  • Posts: 111
Re: tips on using wfp
« Reply #9 on: March 03, 2006, 07:26:51 pm »
tosh,thank you for the advice will let you know results tommorow

Re: tips on using wfp
« Reply #10 on: March 03, 2006, 07:53:13 pm »
tosh,thank you for the advice will let you know results tommorow

I'll look forward to hearing the results.  Keep practising on your own house; neighbors too.

When I first started six months ago, after I finished a batch of houses I'd get my ladders and go checking the first houses I did.  I still do this now and again.

I was pleasantly surprised at the results; even on the first cleans.

However, starting off using a WFP can be frustrating.  It's re-learning a whole new system of work.  It'll take a few months for you to be operating like a 'smooth machine'.

But if you've just bought an Ionics system, you must have a good business already and be more than capable of hacking it when the going gets tough.

Make sure you have a look in the documents to upload section and have a gander at David of St Ives's WFP explanation letter.


rp cleaning services

  • Posts: 111
Re: tips on using wfp
« Reply #11 on: March 03, 2006, 08:22:54 pm »
hi tosh,business is going well,started last may with 1 customer and now have 180+,i bought the ionic system because of the lease hire,£82 a month,i have been cleaning some houses for about 8 months using my ladders but have decided they are  getting too dangerous to clean,my confidence is going due to a slip about 5 weeks ago,i was climbing my pointer ladders when i slipped on the 5th rung and badly scraped my legs and it hurt like hell,so at £20 a week it will be worth it,i would rather work smart than taking silly risks.

steve massey

  • Posts: 69
Re: tips on using wfp
« Reply #12 on: March 04, 2006, 10:38:31 am »
Do you use van mounted wfp systerms to clean houses i have had a systerm for 3 years and never done a house with it couldnt amagine getting hoses out from street into garden getting tangled round plants and then havin to drive van down the street as we go. pulling hoses to next house.

May be i should give it a go ???

steve k

Re: tips on using wfp
« Reply #13 on: March 04, 2006, 11:32:08 am »
I use a van mount on 80-90% of my round which is all domestic.
Pull up, open van door, pole off and connect to hose, take hose in hand, walk to windows, clean , rinse and back to van...very few problems regarding hose snags.

Paul Coleman

Re: tips on using wfp
« Reply #14 on: March 04, 2006, 11:35:30 am »
I use a van mount on 80-90% of my round which is all domestic.
Pull up, open van door, pole off and connect to hose, take hose in hand, walk to windows, clean , rinse and back to van...very few problems regarding hose snags.


I use it on most of mine too.  Sometimes it's a hassle parking where I want to but if there's any problems, I get the trolley out.

mark6765

  • Posts: 92
Re: tips on using wfp
« Reply #15 on: March 04, 2006, 12:32:38 pm »
I too use a van mount. I have done for a year.
Ive got used pulling my hose round the garden.
 But yesterday i was workin away quite happy that i was getting round my work quick, and this old woman came out shoutin that i had lopped the heads of her flowers in the garden. >:(
I tried my best to get the hose out the way but lopped a few more in tryin to get the hose out of the flower bed. :(
she wasnt very happy and nearly cancelled.
i cant blame her, they were probly the first flowers this year.
i may think about useing a backpack on some houses.

rp cleaning services

  • Posts: 111
Re: tips on using wfp
« Reply #16 on: March 04, 2006, 01:07:14 pm »
used the pole again this morning,very impressed with the results,dozen little spots which was not bad for the first time,i will probably try it out on monday with one of my new customers as she as leaded windows.In the past i have slagged the pole off saying it was a rubbish way of cleaning windows, i will never slag it again,early days still and will probably come across some problems but it was so nice not to climb any ladders.i would like to thank tosh for the advice given,The problem when i first started was probably due to the machine being new and i should have empted the first tank away.thanks again rob

Ian_Giles

  • Posts: 2994
Re: tips on using wfp
« Reply #17 on: March 04, 2006, 01:51:23 pm »
Tosh's advice was pretty good, covered the basics anmirably ;)

One other thing that I think all WFP users shoud do is to clean the brush head out regularly.
I think that contamimated bristles account for many of the very tiny spots you can get.
Not the larger stuff, and not the smears that Charlieboy got, I'm prepared to bet any money that the smears he got were like a 'bloom' across the glass, and that is caused from detergent residue bleeding out from the frames, often happens on a first time clean, which is why you need to go back over your work a 2nd time washing only the glass....so long as you have given gravity a time to do its work, go back to quickly and yo umay still get water running down off frames that may not be 100% clean and causing a run of spots.

I digress; after time your bristles will pick up grease or other non soluble soiling, when this gets onto the bristles of the brush the pure water is NOT going to flush it away, and where you brush the bristles against the glass you may well leave tiny amounts of this behind,  causing very tiny spots to be left behind.
Not forgetting that with all the salt being spread over our roads I've no doubt that some of that will become airborn and get onto windows, which you will then pick up on your brush (yeah, I know, salt IS water soluble but it all adds up to a contaminated brush)

I am not saying this is an absolutely provable thing, I might be wrong, it really is just my personal opinion, but it is based on observation and trial and error.

The brush can of course become contaminated with debris you pick from the windows and frames, some of that is obvious and is very visible in the bristles.
I don't think the odd bit of grit makes a lot of difference in truth, if you can see it in the bottom of a bucket should you clean out your brush that way, then any disolvable solids around that bit of grit will have been flushed away, so should that bit of grit be left on the glass after you have washed them, when it dries out it will be just that, a bit of grit and NOT a spot.
The spotting from dirt that can be left behind is caused from much smaller particles that have disolved in the water and then dried out to cause the spotting.
But if you have been cleaning downstairs windows with the odd greassy fingerprint on, or some toddler has pressed their forehead against the patio door, or some drunken female has planted a kiss on the glass (don't you just hate it when they do that >:( lipstick is a pain to get off :-\)
Human grease is also a pain, I have a mate who is an industrial chemist, and he makes a detergent for swimming pools and showers and so on to specifically disolve human fat that gets left in showers or around swimming pools.

Water alone doesn't disolve this stuff.

So keep your brush nice and clean!

The accepted manner of cleaning your brush seems to be to keep a bucket of pure water on hand with a little GG3 or Unger liquid in it and to clean out your brush in this.
Works fine, but you need to spend a little longer on the first window you clean to make sure that enough water goes through the brush to rinse out any lingering detergent.

I'm experimenting with differing ways of cleaning out the bristles though.
At the moment I am using my hand sprayer to wet the bristles, to my mind you don't need to keep pluging it into a bucket of water to clean it, you just need to use a sulution that will disolve any greasy deposites that may have accumulated on the bristles.
when you start the next job the water should flush away the detergent you used.

Perhaps I'm being unnecessarely fussy...but I don't think so, I'm sure that not all spotting is merely down to the fact you haven't done your job properly.

Ian
Ian. ISM CLEANING SERVICES

ray l

  • Posts: 167
Re: tips on using wfp
« Reply #18 on: March 04, 2006, 04:50:03 pm »
I have too agree first cleans are a pain .

When I first started wfp I had a bit of groveling to do, as I hadn,t been trad for very long and a lot of customers complained of spotting. Check out a few of the covering letters and prepare to grovel.

I tell my new customers that they may get a few runs after the first clean due to dirt been washed out from the frames.(This gives a bit of breathing space) but do spend extra time wth them  the first couple of cleans.

Sometimes having your pump up full just spalshes and has water flowing down onto the windows below.
I set the pump about a half turn and find this gives a nice run for cleaning and rinsing
 
I use wfp on 95% of domestic round . A few jobs are easier trad .
A few estates I have its a case of parking in the middle of 3 or 4 houses and starting at one end, and away you go.

It,s a case of trial and error, learning which way round a house to run without the hose getting cought on every bush and bramble.

ray

Re: tips on using wfp
« Reply #19 on: March 06, 2006, 04:05:07 pm »
been using wfp for over ten years and never washed or dunked a brush yet.
just rinse the windows off with water after scrubbing them by holding the brush an inch or two from the glass.
your initial poor results are bound to be due to the first clean drawing all the soap residue from the frames, as many have already said.
stick with it though as things will dramatical speed up after the first two cleans- remember, rinse, rinse, then rinse again!