[windows_chepstow]

A few months ago, Tomo (a member here) asked me to assist him with a quote for a large golf club and hotel complex.  It probably would've taken around four or five days per month for two blokes to do using WFP and trad.

Basically everything needed cleaning inside and out, with the large reception area done weekly.  There's even one area which amounted to a mini housing-estate.

During the quote, we saw the current window cleaning company did a very sub-standard job.  Apparantly they used ladders at the time we quoted.  (I'm not 'knocking ladders', but for this job a WFP would've been far quicker, and windows/buildings needn't have been missed to make up for a low-quote).

Anyway, we put in a fair quote with a method and risk assessment and we knew other window cleaning companies had been asked to quote also.

We didn't get the job.

As a coincidence, today, I found out that I clean the 'Head of House-Keeping' house.  She saw me for the first time using my WFP and said, 'Oh, you've got a Reach & Wash'.

In my explanation letter I call it a Water Fed Pole.

So as the conversation continued, she tells me at her work they've just started using a Reach and Wash.  I asked who the window cleaners are and she tells me and I realise she works at this hotel/golf club complex that we were asked to quote for.

'Not only that', she says, ', we've had them for years, but since they've started using a WFP, they're even cheaper now'.

I think the management were unhappy with the window cleaning service, asked for quotes, discovered WFP and put pressure on their current window cleaners to 'go cheaper' and use a WFP!

I feel used!  I suspect the management has asked for quotes as a 'tool' for getting a cheaper and better job done by their current window cleaners!

Is this sort of thing a common practice?

[Jeff Brimble]

I have been used by local authority asking for quote that took me 4 hours to prepare. They later awarded the contract to THEMSELVES then sub contracted it out to another company ??

[Sarah Sarill]

I have been used by local authority asking for quote that took me 4 hours to prepare. They later awarded the contract to THEMSELVES then sub contracted it out to another company ??

We have just done our first quote for our local authority, which also took many hours to prepare as they wanted individual risk assessments for each job attached to the quotation itself.

I have had a verbal agreement of sorts but have been waiting for written confirmation for a few weeks.

Mmmm, will be more than a little cross if it was a political excercise though.

[Roy Harding]

Tosh

Tom told me yesterday, however some companys do this to get the lowest price.

At one stage the you would have to pay £65 to get the tenders list, just think £65 from all these hopefull window cleaners. We end up paying for a few cleans just for the privilage.

Come april Im loosing a contract that I have been doing for 15yrs its worth £120 a month.

The reason head office has decided all 176 retirement homes will be done by one nantional contractor,  and not by one man bands locally.

Its a pity that there could not be a system where aproved contractors for the area could only tender,  and on been sucsefull on geting a contract, the name been made known to all other aproved contractors in the area, not the price though.

After all the big national companys offten then sub out to loacal window cleaners any way.

And if a company is time wasting ect black listed


Roy

[Paul Coleman]

A few months ago, Tomo (a member here) asked me to assist him with a quote for a large golf club and hotel complex.  It probably would've taken around four or five days per month for two blokes to do using WFP and trad.

Basically everything needed cleaning inside and out, with the large reception area done weekly.  There's even one area which amounted to a mini housing-estate.

During the quote, we saw the current window cleaning company did a very sub-standard job.  Apparantly they used ladders at the time we quoted.  (I'm not 'knocking ladders', but for this job a WFP would've been far quicker, and windows/buildings needn't have been missed to make up for a low-quote).

Anyway, we put in a fair quote with a method and risk assessment and we knew other window cleaning companies had been asked to quote also.

We didn't get the job.

As a coincidence, today, I found out that I clean the 'Head of House-Keeping' house.  She saw me for the first time using my WFP and said, 'Oh, you've got a Reach & Wash'.

In my explanation letter I call it a Water Fed Pole.

So as the conversation continued, she tells me at her work they've just started using a Reach and Wash.  I asked who the window cleaners are and she tells me and I realise she works at this hotel/golf club complex that we were asked to quote for.

'Not only that', she says, ', we've had them for years, but since they've started using a WFP, they're even cheaper now'.

I think the management were unhappy with the window cleaning service, asked for quotes, discovered WFP and put pressure on their current window cleaners to 'go cheaper' and use a WFP!

I feel used!  I suspect the management has asked for quotes as a 'tool' for getting a cheaper and better job done by their current window cleaners!

Is this sort of thing a common practice?

This sort of thing happens all the way down the line.  I was once asked to quote for a house which I didn't get.  It turned out that she only wanted a quote to get her husband off his backside and clean them himself.
Still, it's all in the sometimes cut throat world of business I guess.

[stuart webster]

It happens all the time Tosh.

The larger the property, the more time spent doing quote.

Which is one reason we dont usually take on large contracts, that and loosing them is a worry.

[windows_chepstow]

It happens all the time Tosh.

Which is one reason we dont usually take on large contracts, that and loosing them is a worry.

We did consider this, and agreed to try and work out an arrangement where we could fit it in around our current work-related commitments!

[D woods]

Hi Tosh
This happens all the time , a common occurrence is they give our risk assessment to
the guy who quoted the cheapest price and tell him to copy it.

Because of this we no longer enclose the risk assessment with the quote
we tell them if you appoint us as your window cleaning contractor we
will provide the risk assessment then

[windows_chepstow]

Hi Tosh
This happens all the time , a common occurrence is they give our risk assessment to
the guy who quoted the cheapest price and tell him to copy it.

Because of this we no longer enclose the risk assessment with the quote
we tell them if you appoint us as your window cleaning contractor we
will provide the risk assessment then

D Woods,

I see from your profile that you work in London, and I guess that it's more 'cut throat' there.

But this is the first thread I've seen here, explaining this sort of practice.

I won't say that I'm surprised, but it's not good when they've wasted your time.

[niceandclean]

It will probably get more and more like this when the window cleaning industry is seen more of a business. With all the new health and safety laws, all the new equipment ect on the market. My old grandad used to say, window cleaning son is the best kept secret, and the longer it stays like that the better. With our other side to our business ( double glazing ) we spend money to travel to customers houses, we spend a few hours in peoples houses, then hours sorting out quotes, pictures ect, then after spending money sending the quote out, you phone up to find out someone has beat you due to price. Not everyone buys on service and reliability in this day and age, its all down to how much!!!!

[s.hughes]

how much!!!!

My thoughts exactly

[Ian_Giles]

Tosh,

S/P are going to find that the service they receive will will slide further backwards, the original company weren't very good to begin with, if they have spent out X amount on reach and wash, and have then cut their price still further (the morons) they are going to find themselves spending £££ on new equipment, £££ on running it and earning no more an hour than they were before.
Some people just don't use the brains they were born with.

I personally don't want jobs bigger than half a day...max, I can make infinitely more on this type of work than on jobs that take up to 3 or 4 days to complete.

And if and when you lose the contract, it's only 4 hours out of your week, and not the best part of a week out of your month!!

I do hate the national type contracts though, in the end the local shops lose out, the managers lose control of the work being done, if they want extra work done one week then they have to book it far enough in advance so that the local contractor can contact the main contractor who contacts the head office of the company to check its ok to do the extra work. Gasp! (no comma's, I ran out of air )
If you don't go through channels and get permision, and just do it anyway, there is always the strong likelyhood you may not get paid for the extra work as it hasn't been sanctioned.
Half the time the work isn't done on time, and if the local contractor isn't really 'local' then he may dump the job anyway.
Plus; if you happen to be that local contractor, who is subbing out to a national contractor; you invoice monthly, then wait a month for your money....it doesn't come so you chase them up...they don't have a record of your invoice
And before you know it you are having to eait 3 months or more for your money, and you can bet that the price you have the work for is right down to the bone too
There is always a bloody excuse why they can't pay on time.

Anyway, the loser in the end is the local branch of whatever chain it is, either sub standard work or a continual stream of 'new' window cleaners.


Centralisation sucks

Ian

[Jeff Brimble]

 Another suck word. "Market forces" is the wording the local banks used on me when they dropped me for national contractors.

[P @ F]

Who are these national contractors ?
Or is it lots of people like me doing work for some office in London ?

 Its just that im well on the way to getting a contract covering the whole of the southwest , and i dont want the prospect of losing it to some dude in an office miles away !

  Rich P @ F

[KJG]

Yep, this and worse happens with commercial work, don't take it to heart. I just send off a pre made quote form, all tick box stuff. I could quote a massive job in minutes with it. Bugger being up all night typing details. Also, as already mentioned, never send risk/method statements etc until you at least get some comeback from the quote. As far as this job goes, seems like they've got the window cleaners they deserve.