all the posts have been an eye opener regarding hmrc . i really dont know how the guy i know is getting away with it. he comes across as very honest, there is obviously a way of doing it . but a lot of hassle , if you hit vat threshold and you have to go vat registered then i guess its best to swallow it in your existing turnover .at least you get your vat back on expenses . thanks guys for making me not making a huge mistake .