[windows_chepstow]

I'll give you a pole and let you have a go and show you the standard of work it can produce.

It's the beez-neez mate!

Lovely I'm sure, but it dries spotty.

House owners tell me, and shop owners tell me.

Might look good when you leave it.....

Also, what if there's a crusty bird doodah right at the bottom of the pane?
You couldn't see it from the ground, so you won't scrub it off.

There's no answer to that one, that's been another customer complaint - bird poop.

Sigh!  Yes, you could be right, Roger.

But I'm putting £30 to £70 quid a day on my takings and working less hours.  More will follow; I know.  I'm not as knackered at the end of the day as I used to be and I know the standard of my cleaning has improved overall.

All the frames, even the frosted-window frames are gleaming.  Windows are left - gleaming - no squeegie marks, no marks left from your ladders and they stay cleaner for longer.

So the odd bit of bird poo that you can't see on a tiny minority of windows is a good trade off.

Take a walk around Garden City (where Roger lives).  Hughes Crescent would be a good example as there's only Simon and myself (as far as I know) who cleans there.  The houses I do have clean frames and clean windows.  The houses Simon does only has clean windows.  Hardwick Avenue; look at the house with the yellow landrover parked outside.  Gleaming.  Look at the one next door.  Clean windows.  Stinking frames.

Also, as a ladder user, I too took work from one WFP user.  I was surprised at how clean the windows and frames were when I did them.  This actually did worry me, because I knew I wanted to go WFP.  Even Wor Lass whose a 'fanny' said the windows looked really good.

The reason why we got them was the WFP user didn't educate his customers and made the job look too easy.

We now WFP these customers without complaint from them.

Stop worrying what your customers might think.

Even if you do lose a few, which I haven't yet (but maybe one who I may drop first); the financial rewards are far greater than the possibility of lost business.

[Michael Ross]

In Australia we do not have these WFP systems. And even if we did we couldn't use them due to water restrictions. So squeegee it is.

But something that no-one has mentioned yet is the price, in the future.

Sure, today, at this moment in time, you might think you are making more per hour. But if it makes it easier to get these jobs with a WFP, then the number of people getting into it will increase. The increased supply of Window Cleaners will create competition and the price will drop accordingly. And the result will be the same "lower" hourly rate you get now with Traditional Method. So no better off, in the long run. Worse off actually.

Because now you'll be on the "low" rate but have the added expenses of maintaining the WFP system.

So if you're going the WFP route, consider this future. Make sure you have a backup plan for if it happens.

Personally, even if the WFP as described was available in Australia I wouldn't bother with it. Our architecture is completely different, clients get in & out done so many high windows are done by just leaning out the open window after taking the slider out, and it appears to be wasteful with potable water.

Michael Ross

[Ian_Giles]

Michael has highlighted one of my few worries about WFP

As time passes there will be so many more using it, before long it wil become the norm.
Prices could well be forced down on certain types of work, but as running costs and purchase costs are far higher than than trad this would be really bad news.
Except that after a time, those stupid enough to price low will go out of business.

But they could possibly cause a knock on problem, getting prices back up to where they shoud be may not be an easy task.

Having said that, on your average house it won't make a blind bit of difference, on houses you are charging between £8 and £20 for with trad, you'll still be charging roughly the same.
Where WFP makes an absolutely massive difference is on the larger accounts and windows of the georgian or leaded variety.
You can clean these faster with WFP than you can just go over them with a dry scrim, it's on these that prices could tumble, and that would be a bitch, these are the ones that really make you money.

Only time will tell, but a few months ago, I read on the other forum that just such a price was happening in parts of Bristol.
It happens with trad cleaners too, some company sets up and sends out guys with next to no proper training into areas that have been very heavily canvassed, with offers of 1 clean in ten free, or the first clean free (providing you sign a contract (yeah I know, in reality such a contract won't hold water in court))

But I never lost out to these scams in the past, so hopefully things will turn out ok....Doesn't stop me worrying about it in odd quiet moments though!!

Regards,

Ian

[Ian_Giles]

Lovely I'm sure, but it dries spotty. :

No Rog, it doesn't, not often anyway.
Besides, if I walked around and checked over the last half dozen houses you have cleaned I'll bet that I will be able to find errors on most of them.
There are accounts I do trad, when I walk past them I can invariably find a mistake if I look hard enough, and you well know I am a good and fussy cleaner.
Ladders mark walls and sills (sometimes you have no option but to rest the ladder on the sill).
If you finish a house and your customer asks you to clean the inside for her this month, it'll be a rare clean that won't find you nipping back out to pick up a run or a smear or a 'kick' from the squeegee, and that would only be the obvious ones too!
I will agree that it is easy to a poor job with WFP, but the more skilled you become, the less often this happens.
And you claim to have found more windows that 'couldn't' be done with WFP than ones that 'couldn't' be done with trad??

Not sure what critera you were applying to that one for sure
On some occasions there will be windows you have to do trad, i.e. some doors, some old leaded windows that leak, badly oxidized windows or windows where the water is a problem.

I've yet to find many properties that I can't clean, or where the WFP is more hinderence than help.

There is no way that I could afford the van I've got now if I had stayed with trad.

Well,

It's beddy-byes time for me

Ian

[poleman]

Have to say this has been a good read, having been a ladder user for over 16 years I had just the same perception of WFP as Roger thinking that WFP would not work, I only changed over for my own saftey and like everyone else here knows is not WFP that does a bad job it’s the user.

Andy

[dai]

If you finish a house and your customer asks you to clean the inside for her this month, it'll be a rare clean that won't find you nipping back out to pick up a run or a smear or a 'kick' from the squeegee, and that would only be the obvious ones too!
Ian your a refreshingly  honest guy. Even if they only ask you to do the insides of the patio door, you will invariably find some little mark.
I believe that WFP does do a better job of cleaning the glass, But when I had to do some work off a ladder last week . Well, the frames are definately not done as well. Above the vents and above the openers were minging. If they leave the opener on the catch, leaving a half inch gap at the top, well you just can't go there with WFP can you. dai

[zeusjazmin]

trad for me ,wfp would not be suited to the houses i do