[Moderator David@stives]

when i first posted on this subject i was still recovering from a long and what i thought at the time was a waste of my time  journey.so i was not in the best of moods when i gave my opinions of the course.so maybe i was a bit harsh and did not really think through what i was typing and only highlighted the negatives.I have given my thoughts on a few fragmented posts (more positive lately)and thought it only fair to say how the course has affected me now

The day i attended newsnight were filming and the day was a bit hectic for Craig ,he had to try and do a juggling act with teaching and handling the film crew at the same time.
When we were being shown how to clean windows ,there were some problems with spotting ,and later after i had gone home the problem was traced to one of the staff had filled up with hard water (thames i thing). And i was just thinking "excuses" . Had this been discovered on the day ,and i was shown some spot free windows ,i would have been over the moon with the course.
Anyhow i came away thinking what a load of old tosh this wfp lark is,and thought wfp was the biggest marketing scam ever.
Hence my original posts
After the course i practiced on my windows for hours on end and could not get them spot free ,later discovering that  2 at the front  were perfect,so i started thinking ,its not bad after all.

After i was confident enough to take my wfp public ,i was getting suprisingly good results,and i was having none of the talked about problems even on badly painted and aluminium frames ,and put this down to the techniques i had learnt on the course .
So the penny started to drop and i thought the course was worth every penny,and would do it all over again.

The course itself goes into every concievable aspect of wfp ,somethings i knew and some i did not ,It shows you various techniques and time saving tips .Even if you think you know it all i guarantee you will learn something,
Craig is a very knowledgable person and the course content is well thought out and put across well and i dont know how any one can find about 4 hours worth of material to talk about, so that shows how much there is to take in.
As for the practical side ,i thought that was a bit short and they could do with more windows to practice on ,and that you could more easily inspect the higher windows after you had cleaned them to see what you were doing wrong .But i believe this issue is now being adressed with a new facility with more windows.
What practical we had was quite good and were shown all the techniques to deal with high windows and problem frames .

I hope they take some of my comments on board (and test the tds)and hope i have give some constructive critism.
Even though ionics products were being used ,there was no hard sell at all and found Craig and his staff to be very friendly ,and i got to meet other window cleaners to share a few ideas and have a bit of banter.
Also it was a chance to do something different with a day off work.

I have not been using wfp long now and am always thinking back to the course when i am out cleaning . I have pased my knowledge on to my staff ,who i can now send safely out on there own ,which has been a god send for me as i have been laid up now for nearly 2 weeks and i have actually got some good money coming in.normally i would not let them go on there own because i would not let them use the ladder as i did all the tops myself.now i can sit at home and not have to worry about them falling off ladders and worrying about money.
Up to now i have not had 1 single complaint or had any cancellations and it has put a different perspective on window cleaning  had i not embraced wfp i would of jacked it all in by now as i was not going to spend the rest of my life up the top of a ladder and was getting fed up with it all.
So to sum up .

The bwca wfp is a good foundation to build up your knowledge and i think all users would benefit from it ,as you would definately learn something from it.
If you want to stay safe get a wfp and get some training .To prove i have benefited look at all the advice i have given especially on ciu ,and have not asked any questions myself on this subject since the course.

Dave

[Ian_Giles]

Well done David, it's very good to see you write so objectively.
On your previous posting on the subject I did try to defend Craig and the course (even though I have not (as yet) been on it.
Although I don't know Craig personally, from what I have observed myself he puts a whole lot of effort into all aspects of training for all forms of window cleaning, they don't only run courses for WFP.
At one of the trade shows, I think it was the London one, I listened in on a seminar where he was discussing the various courses that the BWCA ran that related to our trade. I was impressed to say the least.

I'm not sure how many can attend these courses at any one time, but I would not think it necessary for a company the size of Ionics to attempt a 'hard sell' to the reletively small number of people attending the courses.

I would also heartily reccommend that total newbies to trad cleaning attend the courses aimed at them too, much can be learned, and it is much better to learn this way than through trial and error!!

As all who take up WFP will attest, there is a huge learning curve, and mostly we all have long established rounds with high expectations from our customers.
No matter how many years you may have been a traditional window cleaner, you are an utter newbie with the WFP. you WILL make mistakes, and anything that can minimize that can only be of benifit to you.

I've got to go, the wife is due home any minute and I'm supposed to be decorating the front room!

I think I'll go and open a tim of paint, perhaps the smell of fresh paint will convince her I've been busy....now where is that sandpaper.....

Regards,


Ian

[24-7 S C Services]

HI Everyone,

Good constructive post Dave.

I have been on the WFP and the BWCS course’s at Ionics and they have been very useful to me. Yes we all have the knowledge and the foundations. But if anyone wants to be more competent in what they do and learn from a professional, this is the way to go.

After my courses, I gave Craig references from my company. These stipulated, that out of all the courses I have been on (cleaning and security related), his course’s where the best I have been on and defiantly worth the £95 + VAT

I also agree that there is no hard sell for Ionics, which again is important. From time to time, Craig will mention Ionics, but it is not pushed down your throat.

Andrew

[AuRavelling79]

It's ionic  ironic really isn't it? :

[Thecleanerservice]

Phew!
It would have been easier for me to go on the course...It's taken me 3 hours to read David's post

Well as someone leaping into the wfp void I shall be reconsidering BWCA!

Pj

[rosskesava]

After 4 weeks of using wfp, I'm now thinking about the course hsving previously thought it would be a waste of time.

We've ironed out some problems that were mainly logistics and where best to put everything in our work vehicle and although we've not had a single complaint, I'm still not convinced that the windows are actually clean. The problem being is that we cannot go inside and look.

Cheers

[windows_chepstow]

The problem being is that we cannot go inside and look.

Ross,

It may be because I've got slanty-eyes, but I can tell if the exterior of a window is clean from the outside.

I heard members post here that they've cleaned windows with a WFP, hung around till they've dried, then got their ladders out and checked them.

When you've finished an area, why not check a couple?

[matt]

you just need to have faith in the system, "DIY" or "off the shelf" they both deliver pure water to a brush and then you rinse

this is what i told myself

if it works for plenty of others, then it must work

Ive checked a few from the insides, ive checked my own a few times, i see a off run from behind a ruber seal, it leaves about 5 small white dots, its nothing, if it was my house (and mine is) then i would be happy with the finish

if you think to much, you never change

[rosskesava]

Hi Tosh

The windows we've been concentrating on are the ones that cause us problems as for the time being we've yet to sort out firstly how not to use so much water, and secondly how to carry more. Those windows are the ones we can't really look at. Well we can - but having quickly got out the habit of being at the top of a 3 extention ladder........

We did get the ladders and looked at a few semi's we'd done just to try out the thing and the glass did look ok.

One place where we did both the insides and the outsides looked fine from the insides apart from one milky white run right down the center of a largish paine that went from the top to the bottom. From the street level you could not see it at all.

When you're up a ladder you see all of the glass that you are cleaning close up. With wfp you don't and for some jobs when the pole is on full extention (35 ft?), how can you see if the glass is clean in the same way as if you'd been up there with a ladder?

I guess I'm still a sceptic because it all seems too easy and also too quick.

That's why I think it's a good idea for me (or one of us) to go the course because I think I don't trust wfp ...yet.

Have you really got slanty eyes?

Cheers

[Moderator David@stives]

ross
invest in a flow controller such as varistream
the milky run is where you have not cleaned the frame thouroughly enough on the first clean.either clean the frame properly or stay away from the frame but that is not recommended on most frames. only use the former stratergy if you think the frame is going to cause a problem i.e aluminium or milky paint etc

Dave

[rosskesava]

Hi Dave

A flow controller? I will look into this.

We use an ionic pole and brush and and ionics pump (sounds like a plug for ionics doesn't it) and we bought a tap, one of those with a big red wheel on it (well it looks stylish), and if we reduce the flow the pump don't seem to like it. It makes an unhealthy clunk clunk sound but still works. Anyway, our flow controller seems arkward. Is the Varistream flow controler essentialy different to what we have at present which is nothing more than a tap?

Does it matter which side of the pump the flow controler goes?

Also, as the sprayers are in the brisstles, we've found that a problem as the pressure needs to be higher to get the water to jet through them. I guess all that needs is new ones zip tied to the top of the brush?

With regards the run, the window did have painted white frames - thanks for the advise.

The bwca course? I've just spoken to my mate and he said that we'll work things out ourselves both by this forum and by the other local wfp's we see from time to time. Did you have that type of veiw at all when you started using wfp and what made you change your mind.

Sorry to sound like 20 questions....

Cheers

[Moderator David@stives]

Hi Dave

A flow controller? I will look into this.

We use an ionic pole and brush and and ionics pump (sounds like a plug for ionics doesn't it) and we bought a tap, one of those with a big red wheel on it (well it looks stylish), and if we reduce the flow the pump don't seem to like it. It makes an unhealthy clunk clunk sound but still works. Anyway, our flow controller seems arkward. Is the Varistream flow controler essentialy different to what we have at present which is nothing more than a tap?

the flow variable controller controls the pump electronicaly with no water going to it just electric and that determines the speed of the pump

Does it matter which side of the pump the flow controler goes?

it just goes to the wiring of the pump

Also, as the sprayers are in the brisstles, we've found that a problem as the pressure needs to be higher to get the water to jet through them. I guess all that needs is new ones zip tied to the top of the brush?

lightly trim the bristles around the jets but not too much.If you are spraying over the brush you will always be spraying the brickwork above causing more problems

With regards the run, the window did have painted white frames - thanks for the advise.

Try not to wet the frame tops in future

The bwca course? I've just spoken to my mate and he said that we'll work things out ourselves both by this forum and by the other local wfp's we see from time to time. Did you have that type of veiw at all when you started using wfp and what made you change your mind.

I wanted the best  training available .so i knew i had all my bases covered, and knew i was not missing anything.I would advise at least one of you go you will learn more than cleaning you will learn more about your equipment and problem solving and probably save money in the long run

Sorry to sound like 20 questions...

No probs


Dave

[rosskesava]

Dave

Cheers mate. Good advise yet again.

I will be ordering a Varistream flow controller asap and I will go on the course at some point soon and will report back on both accounts.

Now where's my missus's lady shave for those bristles on the brush..... :

Thanks.

[neil100]

david, thanks for your reply on my topic ro or di,and the good advice of not asking too many questions as people wont reply,horrer of horrers your intro reads like war & peace. umm but you've got me thinking 25 years window cleaning and the best window cleaner north of watford. should this wfp newibe to be go on a course.

cheers.nel

[Moderator David@stives]

Neil

like i said earlier ,at least you know you have covered all your bases and you have took the best training available.
and yes you will learn something.
It did me no harm

Dave