Interested In Advertising? | Contact Us Here
Warning!

 

Welcome to Clean It Up; the UK`s largest cleaning forum with over 34,000 members

 

Please login or register to post and reply to topics.      

 

Forgot your password? Click here

Ken

  • Posts: 231
Got To Get This Off My Chest...
« on: September 23, 2005, 12:31:52 pm »
Bear with me for a minute! I first cleaned windows in 1989. I have done other jobs over the years but always seem to end up coming back to it! Have been full time now for the last 5 years. I work with a good friend of mine on a mixed commercial/domestic round. We have a wfp system which is currently being reinstalled into a trailer, so are using our ladders for the whole round at the moment. We use gg4, microfibres, Rojak stoppers and Unger kit. Records are kept using George and Pocket George. (I mention all this to show that we are not cowboys etc…) I have found the forums to be a very useful aid when sourcing new kit, clearing up concerns over WAHD, wfp and so on. However I have a couple of points that I would like to make…
1. The constant snarking between wfp suppliers/users and those who currently use ladders is really getting me down. Each side makes valid points, can it not just be left there. If people want to use ladders they surely have got enough information to make that decision!? Those who seem to be wfp’s biggest advocates appear to be the ones who will make the most money out of it. I built my own system up (with the help of a local supplier) and with Ionics brushes, 100m of Tricoflex hose, jumbo r/o and d/i, pump, battery and all the gubbins that goes with it, it came at just over £1000. When companies are selling systems for twice that with lesser quality components their concern for window cleaners safety seems to be tinged with something else. I appreciate everyone needs to make a living but could they please temper their incessant wfp proselytising? (As an aside, having switched back to trad methods recently we have noticed that when you get up close to previously wfpd windows they aren’t that hot. There is baked on bug poo and bird business that the brushes just haven’t removed. A number of customers have said they are glad to see us doing the windows by hand. A friend of mine who has also invested heavily in wfp reckons that 90% of his customers would prefer him to switch back! We need to strike a balance between what’s good for us and what’s good for the customer.)
2. At the risk of destroying motivation amongst the window cleaning workforce, it is just window cleaning, for pity’s sake! If we all downed tools tomorrow and no more windows were cleaned would anyone really care? Life would go on (admittedly a little dingier!). My point I guess is just let it go and let’s not get stressed doing what is claimed to be one of the least stressful jobs you can do! I realise this doesn’t sit well when read with my previous point but hey I don’t care!

I sorry if this seems a little negative. I like these forums and have found them very interesting and often entertaining, but just recently I have been less and less inclined to have a look at threads when they just seem to descend in to the same sort of backward and forward arguments that can be found on a million others. Feel free to gun me down, I’m sure you will…

Ken Long

Moderator David@stives

  • Posts: 8829
Re: Got To Get This Off My Chest...
« Reply #1 on: September 23, 2005, 12:43:16 pm »
Ken why did you switch back to traditional.

Was you having problems with wfp

was it the quality of the work or was it time consuming .i would be interesting to hear your views as i have not been doing wfp long myself

Dave

alan_t

Re: Got To Get This Off My Chest...
« Reply #2 on: September 23, 2005, 12:54:18 pm »
yep i agree, i've noticed it to.


Ray Pickering

  • Posts: 143
Re: Got To Get This Off My Chest...
« Reply #3 on: September 23, 2005, 02:00:30 pm »
Hya Ken Long.

My sentiments exactly!!!!!

I really thought about defecting (don't suppose it would bother anybody) with the constant talk about WFP as opposed to trad method's.

It's slowly creeping towards an us & them attitude.

Like you said were all doing the same job--some take great delight in keep harping on about H&S regs most would like to see ladders banned!!!!

I definitely think that WFP is the way forward but quite a few out there expect you to sell the house to get one.

There's a lot of factors involved in buying a WFP set up --like paying the mortgage & bills feeding the kid's etc:

I'm lucky in the fact i don't have a mortgage--my kid's are all married & gone (bless em)

I could go out tomorrow & buy a WFP set-up but choose not to do so.

As you say you get a bit fed up with people keep telling you what your missing, but surely it's a matter of choice.

Anyway as i am now i will stay on the ladder (as a lowlife) until it suits me to change.

Regards Ray.


welmac

  • Posts: 145
Re: Got To Get This Off My Chest...
« Reply #4 on: September 23, 2005, 03:55:40 pm »
As someone who sells and uses a WFP system i would say that for me it was the best move i ever made with regards to window cleaning.

However 99% of my work consists of commercial buildings at a height of 40ft+. so for me health and safety was very important. Plus my time has literally been halved as i am not constantly running up and down my triples (put on a bit of weight though!!!)

I would agree that WFPs dont suit everyone. i know a window cleaner who is happy cleaning small terraced houses who went to a WFP and TBH isnt that keen on it, so maybe they arent suited for all kinds of work?

my advice: before spending ££££££££££££s on a system, shop around and find a system that suits your work. dont spend cash loads of money on a system that is designed for commercial work if yours is all domestic. prices can range anywhere from £1500-£15k,so take your time and choose carefully.

Gary.

gaza

  • Posts: 1642
Re: Got To Get This Off My Chest...
« Reply #5 on: September 23, 2005, 03:55:53 pm »
RAY: Dont tempt fate,a knock on the door 2 in the morning is only a knock away ;D theres only one way of stopping them coming back sometime in their life move to a 1 bedroom ganny flat ;D

          gaza
IM AT THAT AGE MY BACK GOES OUT MORE THAN I DO

Ken

  • Posts: 231
Re: Got To Get This Off My Chest...
« Reply #6 on: September 23, 2005, 05:37:36 pm »
David @ st.ives
Switched back to trad as my van died! Wfp has it's place (and I've got jobs that it is invaluable for) but I'm a grown up and if I want to use a (safely secured) ladder to do a job then surely I should be allowed to. If a particular window is potentially dangerous to get to I'll leave it until my wfp is up and running again. My choice and I have to deal with the consequences of that choice.

dai

  • Posts: 3503
Re: Got To Get This Off My Chest...
« Reply #7 on: September 23, 2005, 05:49:49 pm »
I am new to WFP too so still learning. This last week I have WFP the fronts on some houses and did the backs off my ladder. It was quicker that way. Did a couple of commercial jobs today, we usually finish about 2.30,with the pole we had finished by 12.30. This inspite of losing 30 minutes locating the connector that the pump was sucking air
from. We do the insides on one of these jobs, a pub on the Conwy Marina. I inspected the job when we had finished. The windows were at least as good as we could have done them traditionally
I have been advised that it takes about 3 months to learn where to use the pole and when to leave it in the van. I will continue to use ladders untill I hear that a self employed WC has been prosecuted.
I'm not holding my breath. Dai

Moderator David@stives

  • Posts: 8829
Re: Got To Get This Off My Chest...
« Reply #8 on: September 23, 2005, 05:51:37 pm »
Ken

do what you do and dont let anyone tell you ,its wrong.
until they say ladders are banned ,well its nobody elses business.

Dave

Sarah Sarill

  • Posts: 1537
Re: Got To Get This Off My Chest...
« Reply #9 on: September 23, 2005, 05:58:02 pm »
Hi Ken,

My signature statement says it all for me !!!

Regards,

Sarill
Sarah

Re: Got To Get This Off My Chest...
« Reply #10 on: September 23, 2005, 06:01:47 pm »
Ban ladders, ban wfps, ban moaning posters, ban you, ban me.
"Whatever it is, I'm against it!"  Groucho Marx!!

Pj

Re: Got To Get This Off My Chest...
« Reply #11 on: September 23, 2005, 06:02:47 pm »
I'm sorry Pj, but I don't think that's funny.  I'm trying to be serious!

Pj

Re: Got To Get This Off My Chest...
« Reply #12 on: September 23, 2005, 06:07:28 pm »
Well I'm not apologising.....not yet.

Just finished my first day wfp-ing, helping a master...
After doing it trad for 18 years I feel like first day at school.
Now who am I?

Help...

Pj

Sarah Sarill

  • Posts: 1537
Re: Got To Get This Off My Chest...
« Reply #13 on: September 23, 2005, 06:15:52 pm »
 ;D

Nice one Pj !!!

This thread was started by Ken cos of the widening gap between wfp and trad and its impact on this forum.  Now your first day is over what's your take on it.

Regards,

Sarill
Sarah

rosskesava

Re: Got To Get This Off My Chest...
« Reply #14 on: September 23, 2005, 06:56:26 pm »
Hi Ken

Great posting and my sentiments also. At one point some postings were almost 'if you go up a ladder - you'll die for sure. Someone else spoke to a H & S person whilst attending a course and he was told that something like 1 000 w/c die every year with 30 000 injured. Then there's knock on the door in the middle of the night by the Health and Safety for some hapless w/c not using his ladder properly. And so it goes on but most postings are less extreme about ladders and wfp.

We've just started using wfp 4 weeks ago and whilst it has it's obvious benifits, it also has obvious drawbacks which I'm not going to write here. It's the same for traditional methods, there are benifits and drawbacks so we've decided to use both methods as then we'll get the benifits of both with none of the drawbacks.

The one thing I won't miss is being up the top of a 3 extension ladder and that is the only time we will use wfp regardless.

Quote
I have been less and less inclined to have a look at threads when they just seem to descend in to the same sort of backward and forward arguments

I agree and disagree.

I agree because so much rubbish and 'I think' is written and it does become extremely boring to read.

I disagree because unless someone posts something stating what is what, so to speak, it could almost end up a wfp forum where ladders are banned.

Personnaly, I think overall a lot of common sense about ladders and the WAHD does often get posted but unfortunately, a lot of guess work does also.


Cheers

I added this later. Ken, you posted almost the same on cleaningpro's. Hmmm. Interesting. I wonder why?

Re: Got To Get This Off My Chest...
« Reply #15 on: September 23, 2005, 11:03:56 pm »
A level headed comment Ross.

I had my first day wfp today, with someone else's stuff.
Strange, but he is still my friend!!

So now the choices are as clear as mud.  I thing I will have more to say.  As usual.
I'm sorry I annoy you.  But it's ok I like you anyway.

Pj

rosskesava

Re: Got To Get This Off My Chest...
« Reply #16 on: September 23, 2005, 11:08:34 pm »
Hi The Cleaner Service

I don't think I've ever been called level headed before.

My reply is on 'the place to chat'. Page 17.

Cheers

chris@c.m.s

  • Posts: 1556
Re: Got To Get This Off My Chest...
« Reply #17 on: September 23, 2005, 11:38:11 pm »
even as a newbie the answer of  trad against wfp on residential, has to be use a portable wfp when traditional isnt safe, best of both worlds hopefully, untill ladder use is against the regs, then the customers have to expect slightly less sometimes,  does wfp remove paint hmmmmm
 
Sussex by the sea

Re: Got To Get This Off My Chest...
« Reply #18 on: September 23, 2005, 11:48:55 pm »
Well done c.m.s.

you have more to share...

Pj

Re: Got To Get This Off My Chest...
« Reply #19 on: September 24, 2005, 01:30:32 pm »
Ken

if you haven't lost interest in this thread...
As I have said, I've been trad w/c for 18 years, now about to take the step of adding wfp kit.  Not sure at all how to go about it, madly reading all the back posts on here to educate myself a bit..
It sounds like you have quite a good system setup for £1,000.
I'm willing to spend more than that if necessary, but would you share a bit more info about how you did it?
I want quality gear, but I don't want a 'sledge hammer to crack a walnut', if you know what I mean.  Any advice appreciated

Pj