[Moderator David@stives]

thats where i practiced my scrimming technique on my car windows and can honestly sayi can get it perfect. 

no disrepect to you mate but there are probably a few old timers on here who can say the same. as unless someone has shown you scrimming it is hard to get pefect results

i am with you on wfp ie the same concerns.

good luck with your wfp you seem to have the right attitude .

dave

[Rick]

pttfff bloody cowboys
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
scurrys off .
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
  ok guys its was just a joke no need to get nas...smack....pow!!...crack
.
.
.

[matt]

good luck tomorrow dai

[williamx]

Dai

Good luck to you and remember that wfp is not the whole to window cleaning but its a part of the whole.

As a newbie to this method you will find that problem can arise and you will think ( what a crap system, I can do it better by hand).

We have all gone though this but help is at hand via this and other forums.

I wish you the best and any help you need.

William

[Moderator David@stives]

dai

dont forget to let us know how you get on with your wfp.

dave

[dai]

Congratulations DAVID, not a mark to be seen.
Lets just talk about scimming technique for a moment. If I remember you said on an earlier posting that an old timer had tought you to do this. I first worked at wc in 1958 and I worked for an old timer too.
Even in those days just like now wc's had their own methods. We allways used clean damp scim made into a pad for polishing. Another guy who was my bosses brother used his scim dry, yet another used 2 chamoise skins, one for cleaning one for polishing off. I remember the gaffer telling me that before they had scrim, they used a chamoise and then a duster when the glass was dry.
The windows back then were mostly small panes, a hell of a lot of corners to get into.
Now I may not be the worlds best window cleaner, I'm not the worlds best driver either. None of this bothers me.
However I would take exception with anyone who suggested that I wasn't up their amongst the most honest.
Have you never been round collecting in the winter when all the lights were on and the curtains open. I have, and on more than one occasian I have used my hanky to wipe a smear that i had left on what I thought was a perfect job when I left it.
I am still struggling on with WFP. It's hitting my pocket hard at the moment though. Might do a few with the ladders tomorrow to try and catch up a bit. I

[Moderator David@stives]

Dai

If i were you as this is the way i am going to do it .i would get in front with your work .then when in front and you have got a couple of easy days then get stuck in with the wfp .or take someone with you to do bottoms even if it is only temporary. then it will be a lot easier to stomach earnings wise..

as for bad  scrimming ,i have been known for it when i am in a rush or cheating a little bit ,as we all do from time to time.
 I could probably give anyone a good challenge with it .I do my own windows with a setting sun to perfect my technique.

anyway enough of that we could knock every form of w/c ing all night .lets just agree in the right hands all ways can be good .

thanks for the progress report, and keep us informed as i am interested to see how you get on .as i will not be to far behind you

good luck 

dave

p.s. i never go out collecting .dont believe in it and never will

[garry]

well the wfp back patting parade are out.
i personally have not put my system on the public and dont know if i ever will .
i earned over £800 in 3 +1/2 days this week doing traditional.so i know you dont need a pole to make money.
i think the law can make you wear a seatbelt but ladders ??
i know they are good for safety but i can not see any advantage apart from high work.

wow £800 in 3 days doin trad way brillant wish i could earn that and i got wfp.
if you do that every week thats works out about £1330 per week based on five days work. if you work 48 weeks per year thats an income of £63840 i take my hat of to you well done that man. just think all that tax you have to pay each year helps keeps this country on its feet oh yeah almost forgot all that vat as well as you earn so much i take it an honest guy like you is vat reg just think dave if you got wfp you could earn £150k per year
lets hope the tax man dosent read these pages i dont think he does

[Moderator David@stives]

i know the tax man definately reads these pages .they are not as daft as you think i have got absolutely nothing to hide .do you think i am that thick that i did not think of that before  i posted ,do you think i can keep that pace up 5 days a week 48 weeks a year .if you can you are a better man than me.
oh its so good to read between the lines .
sorry to disapoint you .i ran out of work that week and if i had more i would of had a good go at it .you never know i may have the rest of this week off.or may not even work next week ,you didn`t put that in your assumptions did you .if the money is there to be earnt why hang about .just go for it
when i go to work i dont stop and am very good at what i do.
work it out about £30 hr i have heard figures well in excess of that on this site .
it has took me 7 years to build up this round ,which was already a good round when i bought it .

why is there so many people so quick to have a go and pull you down.

personally i dont care if you dont believe me .


ps the final figure was £811,so you will have to re-do your calculations

dave

[Sir Squeaky]

just think dave if you got wfp you could earn £150k per year

If he's that quick he can turnover that much then he's faster than wfp.

I believe I am too.

[Ian_Giles]

Wanna bet Rog?



Ian

[Moderator David@stives]

well we all have got a bit side tracked here . the main point i was making ,was before wfp you needed an head for heights to start window cleaning and that was the main factor which put people off joining our trade.which in a way limited the numbers entering .now the only limiting factor is cash for a pole system ,which are getting cheaper all the time. so as a job option it is available to all not just the brave .

dave

[brett walker]

well we all have got a bit side tracked here . the main point i was making ,was before wfp you needed an head for heights to start window cleaning and that was the main factor which put people off joining our trade.which in a way limited the numbers entering .now the only limiting factor is cash for a pole system ,which are getting cheaper all the time. so as a job option it is available to all not just the brave .

dave

  well said mate !

[Sir Squeaky]

Wanna bet Rog?

Ian

No trouble Ian.

Two identical houses, from pulling up to driving away.
Only so fast you can pole, you can't rinse any quicker.

Trad can be honed to be as quick as you can go.

Oh, and every few houses I'll have a nice break and a coffee and fAg while you change over tanks, adjust poles etc...

Wouldn't want an unfair advantage.

[windows_chepstow]

Wanna bet Rog?

Ian

No trouble Ian.

Two identical houses, from pulling up to driving away.
Only so fast you can pole, you can't rinse any quicker.

Trad can be honed to be as quick as you can go.

Oh, and every few houses I'll have a nice break and a coffee and f*g while you change over tanks, adjust poles etc...

Wouldn't want an unfair advantage.

As a ladder user I suspect that it may be quicker doing one small terraced house using a ladder.

But we don't clean one house per day, do we?

We normally clean batches of them in one area or substantial houses as drive-betweens.

A better test would be five or ten houses; or how many could you fit in a six to eight hour period working at your normal work rate.

Would the ex-ladder users, who now use WFPs agree that they complete more work in a normal day, than they did when they used ladders; therefore earn more money?

[Sarah Sarill]

Tosh,

As an ex-ladder user who luckly has large clusters of same street clean I can confirm that pre-wfp I averaged 25 detached (3/4 bed homes) in a WORKING DAY.

Now with the wfp I do the same area and complete 32 houses - thats a 28% increase. !!!

I agree that if you did not have these clusters it may not be so efficient v's traditional as it takes a little longer to set up and pack away.  This is why the parrot in me repeats i'ts HORSES FOR COURSES so do whatever suits !!!

Unless you canvass and decide to expand you will only earn the same money but the plus for me is that I do it in fewer days and can afford time off or earlier finish times.  During the winter the advantage will be that more work can be done in fewer days so its not as much of a b--ch when it rains work off.  You should catch up quicker with wfp.  All good stuff in my opinion

[Rick]

baaa humbug!!!!

[Ian_Giles]

This thread is very similar to another one I posted a comment on, it's a theme that crops up often, usually from slightly differing view points, but it always seems to go the same way! And ends out trying to compare the two methods!!

To get back to the original thrust of the post; WFP isn't going to kill the trade or the  traditional methods of window cleaning, they are always going to be needed, ladder use is going to be affected of course, the writing is on the wall for that of course.
Fear of heights is only one of the factors stopping people start up as a window cleaner, you still have to go out and get hundreds of accounts, many will still look at window cleaning as being beneath them, or as a chore that they hate and couldn't bear the thought of doing all day long.

Setting yourself up with a ladder, bucket and a couple of scrims and a squeegee is always going to be way, way cheaper than investing in WFP, therefore those that will get into window cleaning because it is so cheap to start up are most definitely going to be put off by the extra investment of a couple of grand on a WFP.
Yes, you can go the DIY route and build your own system, most won't, they would want a ready made system.
And don't forget,they will still need ladders and all the rest of the traditional equipment, you can't get by doing nothing but WFP.
It isn't THAT easy either! There is a steep learning curve and a real skill to using it.
It could well go the other way, if people are forced off ladders there might even be fewer window cleaners, not more

Time to go! Work to do!

Ian

[Moderator David@stives]

Ian

interesting view point. i kind of agree with you for know.until there comes a time when wfp systems come reay cheap.
i was talking to a guy last night and he just uses an in line filter on his hose from the tap .and did not realy know nothing about tds .he was a very proffesional guy with a successful business .so if he is like that i think a few new n00bs may go that route.

i hope you are right .
you are of course right about having a good customer base though   

[williamx]

David

The cheapest way to go the wfp route, is to start with a di tank with resin - 18' pole and 40 metre of hose and a tds meter, total cost about £150.

All you need to do then is connect the hose to your customers water supply and away you go.

You are limited on some properties but its still possible to earn a good living this way.

As for more window cleaners starting up and then driving prices down, this won't happen because it still costs a fair amount to run a di system.

You will also find that some will start up in the summer when they can top up the tan ready for their holidays but when the weather turns and its cold - wet and dark outside, then they will have another career change.

Finally there is a national shortage of good window cleaners which these newbies will hopefully fill.