[matt]

it took me ages typeing it all out then you lock it

you bu gg er

anyways, so it doesnt go to waste its below

Ive stayed off this thread upto now, ive had a few e.mails asking what i think of it so here goes

do we expect that the course is a "way to push ionics products"  ?

They provide the equipment and tell the people on the course how good the "ionics products are", we undersand this, its only natural that they want to sell products

the course has a few "ionics staff / or fanboys" on it

craig has explained this, they have to be trained, NOW when i was a carpenter (b4 i became a WC'er) i went on a power tool course, up in birmingham, i saw it as a day out from work, paid for etc etc, we arrived at the center to see a MASSIVE DEWALT power tool sign, the first thing we all thought was "sales drive" we sat down and had a few displays from the "teacher" then it was time for a coffee break, some of the "pupils" would talk to others, these were all for the DEWALT range, they were s.posed to be "pupils" but they smacked of "dewalt sales team plants" at the end of the day, we were waiting for our driver to arrive in the confrence bar, and he was late, time moved on, and guess who met up, the "pupils / plants and the teachers"

i am afraid to say, this looks very similar

The question has been asked again and again, what would i learn from the WFP course, i have also been on the WFP for about 1 year now, and feel i do a good job, infact i have only had 1 person complain

I am afraid to say, i dont care how the "water technology works" it doesnt interest me, i know my tap water is 460 TDS and after my RO man cheapo 60 gall a day RO and a cylinder of DI it comes out at 000 TDS, and rises as the Resin is worn out, oh and the pre filter SHOULD be changed every 6 months, but loads dont, personally, i couldnt give a rats ar$s about how it all works, so that part of the course is a waste of time imho

the C&G certificate is good for business and the "pro man andy" hi andy says its worth 14 K a year

only if you have a big van and a ionics 3 grand worth system  , i have a few "good comercail contracts and not 1 of them is interested in a certificate

Oh when i was a carpneter and working as a "council grants inspector" i got the job because i said i had a HND in building studies, i only have a HNC BUT the job required a HND, ithey didnt check, since then ive had temp jobs on good earning contracts as a site manager, all requireing quilfications i didnt have, what does that say, apart from im a blagger

The test system hadnt had its pipes flushed out

very poor indeed, if you cannot get it right on a sale display, very poor

on this subject, i do a comercail job where i cannot get my cart around, so i use my garden hosepipe, not very professional you might say, well i do have a "cowboys DIY system" ( a phrase used by a sales menber of your team, to a guy i know, a little shocking i must say), so whatcha expect , but i allways run 25 L's through the pipe b4 hand, its it flushs them out

how much does the ionics van need to be flushed through, how many times did you try and clean the window ?? ?? ? ?

anyways, thats my opinion, is the show worth it

some will say yes
some will say no

do i think i would learn enough to justify the 100 quid and a days loss of money

NO

[Moderator David@stives]

its not just this forum ,i got threatened with eviction just for asking if someone had got rid of there spots yet ?.

dave

[matt]

to be fair, i allways thought this forum Clean it up wasnt on "sides" or on the payroll like other forums (freebies for people etc)

i am still convinced that this forum is impartial and allows both sides of the arguement to be heard

[matt]

Interesting and coherent.

is this reply genuine ?? ?? ?? ??

[matt]

just thought you might have been trying to be ionic     

or should that read ironic

[windows_chepstow]

Alan, I've replied to your e-mail.

I think all questions have been answered and I think this is getting a little bit childish.

[Moderator David@stives]

this got locked out but i think it is relevent

Posts: 86



    Re: Is the BWCA Course Worth It?
« Reply #80 on: Today at 06:42:59pm »   

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Craig
If you read through my posts on this thread you will notice that i have said some positive things as well as negative ,I wrote about my experiences from the day i attended right up to present .
I dont think You realize how disillusioned and upset i was after the course  . But now i am feeling more up-beat and all things considered your course gets the thumbs up. I will accept you had a bad day, but try putting yourself in my shoes and you may understand how i felt .
as you may see i have already answered a couple of posts with info i gained on the course. one on the other forum about resin and another i thing on the benefits of the brushes you were using on the course.
so if there is any more hounding remember i did not initialy pose the question ?.the  wolves were already out.

dave
p.s. now will you be my friend  !!!! ?. 

I think this is hopefully helpful to all parties concerned.
dave

[matt]

Tosh

This is only getting childish in your opinion.

I feel really sorry for you and all the users of this forum. All I intended was to get a definitive answer to the question that i posted. It is obvious that BWCA do not want to clarify there training boasts. I genuinely want to know if they can teach spot free cleaning, but you are determined to block this.

So BWCA are our only training organisation, should we let them carry on misleading wc with there advetising? Can they answer for themselves or do the moderators need to do that for them. It is obvious that there are users who would like to see them answer this question, let them do it.

you will never get a answer from ioincs, why, they are salespeople, and salepeople dont give answers they dont want you to hear

[Ian_Giles]

I've read the posts in this particular thread and think they are well thought out, but for Craig to come on here and continually defend the course means he s always on the back foot.
There may well be  a degree of sales involved, it is an Ionics driven course after all.
But the techniques shown are based in many years of experience and practice.

They may well push their own, I really don't know, but the methods shown will hold good for all systems.
Can they teach spot free cleaning?
Well that just has to depend on you, how on earth can they guarantee that?
They can show you best practice, the best way to avoid things like repetitive strain injury.

I could teach you how to prepare, prime, undercoat and gloss a flush door, but the moment you go out and try to do it you will screw it up, guaranteed.

where WFP is concerned, there are so many variables, types of glass, types of frames, the condition of the frames, the weather conditions, how damaged is the glass.

you can be shown the techniques, and if you are a greenhorn you will learn plenty, if you are experienced you will probably learn things that will surprise you, but I do not see how they can guarantee to teach you how to do spot free WFP'ing, it is a skill you have to develop.
They can show you the pitfalls, the things to avoid, they can point you in the right direction, they can give you the information you need to go forward. But it takes time to develop the necessary skills you will need to do a top job, a day long course will not give you these skills.

Have a good day now!

Ian

[matt]

a good point ian

but you know what they say

practise practise practise

Im a good carpenter, any1 who has worked for me / with me, OR been trained by me will tell you that

BUT

i still learn tricks everytime i do a job (not often these days as i do window cleaning)

the theory side of WFP can be read right here on the forums, then its down to you to practise and stick at it

you got to take the rough with the smooth

[Moderator David@stives]

"They say it takes 2-3 cleans to get the
windows up to standard, thats simply not acceptable!
Learn how to get the best out of waterfed poles and
give your customers the service they expect right from
the very first clean! I`ll show you how"

that is the extract from the ad.
And to be fair it does not actually say "spot free"
that is a matter of interpritation ,very clever it does not say what" standard " is or
what level of "service they expect "actually is
so i should of read the ad properly
silly me
dave

[Thecleanerservice]

Well done ianG you do try to keep a balanced perspective.
This will go round and round.

Pj

[Moderator David@stives]

it also says"

    "our last window cleaner used a wfp to clean our windows and left them covered in spots and smears"

Its easier to convince this new customer that you can do a better job  with your

    new reach and wash system

and a wfp training certificate from the bwca"

still does not say spot free like i say clever

dave

[Ian_Giles]

Well I would also say that I would also get most cleans to an acceptable level from the very first clean.
When I first started out it took a little while to get it right; Self taught.

Had I gone on a course I would have lessened the learning curve, my understanding of how to get over the problems that would arise as I went about my work would be in place.

These courses won't make you a brilliant window cleaner, that's down to you, they can't give you experience, but they can give you the knowledge or the know how of how to go about your job and develop that experience.


Time to get to work!

Ian