[ronnie paton]

dave has im vat registered i guess im allowed to comment

Vat is scary simple reason for is its difficult to add vat to all your customers ie residential non profit comanys like residents associations, this in turns means your profits are reduced.

two men in a escort van with a back pack doing a 11k aweek i would like to see that(im doubting all together though).

Now if its a business sold has a business we accounts company name ect ect it would be worth a lot but if it was a real company it would of already been vat registered.

[Sean Dyer]

ignore all previous posts, this has been posted on my mates cleanitup account.

i rent nearly half the round out (at a profit of 12k pa) and do about 7k with one other chap who invoices me for all work done. I have a kangoo and an escort van, and work pretty damn fast 3-4 days per week. my wife and i run the business as partners

???im confused

how much does it make ?? bottom line!

[BVC]

Man!!!!!! You guys take life to seriously. 2 of us do £500 a day 16 days a month. With ladders and a couple of backpacks for dangerous windows in an R reg van. I also rent a couple of grand out to a friend. Nice, compact country work. Where's the problem? All above board, we aren't crooks and we pay our taxes.

I have used van mount and backpacks. I dont understand the big issue. They are both good. You can easily earn decent money with the packs.  

If you think out of the box, or speak to a proper accountant you will see you dont have to be vat registered. I will not elaborate on that statement, so dont bother asking. Speak to an accountant.

Just wondered what you thought it was worth. I can think of much better ways of boosting my ego than lying about my round on a forum.

Im not trying to be smart or clever. I go to work and I work hard. Then I go home!

[Clive McDonald]

Sorry.

[ronnie paton]

if you and your wife are partners then it doesnt matter this post proves what your doing is illegal think its could some thing seperation??

not my problem though if you get caught your fooked if not well done.

the thing is there are lots of people willing to give advise on getting out of paying vat but in the end its not them taking the risk!

[bobby p]

nex time i see yer kangoo,will give u a toot ,        do ur mates drive a red merc car

[Moderator David@stives]

Polish where staff are involved you would probably be working on 50% net profit

As with the vat situation, if the vat man doesnt write to you, you can assume what you are doing is ok.

If he thought you were pulling a fast one he would come after you straight away, not a year down the line.

I rang the vat office a while back as i was thinking of splitting my domestics and forming a vat free domestic business, they told me it was OK to do so.

there are a lot of myths where the vat man is concerned, the only way to find out is to phone them direct yourself

[krave]

Polish where staff are involved you would probably be working on 50% net profit

As with the vat situation, if the vat man doesnt write to you, you can assume what you are doing is ok.

If he thought you were pulling a fast one he would come after you straight away, not a year down the line.

I rang the vat office a while back as i was thinking of splitting my domestics and forming a vat free domestic business, they told me it was OK to do so.

there are a lot of myths where the vat man is concerned, the only way to find out is to phone them direct yourself

It goes to show that a lot of people "facts or knowledge" on here is actually only opinion.

Not yours Btw.

[Trevor Knight]

Polish where staff are involved you would probably be working on 50% net profit

As with the vat situation, if the vat man doesnt write to you, you can assume what you are doing is ok.

If he thought you were pulling a fast one he would come after you straight away, not a year down the line.
I rang the vat office a while back as i was thinking of splitting my domestics and forming a vat free domestic business, they told me it was OK to do so.

there are a lot of myths where the vat man is concerned, the only way to find out is to phone them direct yourself

Dave, thats is SO wrong mate!!! VAT is simple to work but very calculated and any errors are down to the business not the VAT man! You are left alone as they have so many companies to look at, but the rule of thumb is within 7 Years you should get an inspection, and when they come knocking if its all wrong you are in deep s**t as along the way you should have been seeking advice from your accountant, at the end of the day if its still wrong its YOUR FAULT!

Splitting your business is an option, but again be very careful, dont think the IR and VAT have never seen anyone try this before as they have, as long as your offices are seperate, business owned seperatley, telephones the whole lot you may be ok, but if your using the same employees to do the work be VERY careful mate, would hate to see all your hard work go up in smoke!!!

[macmac]

Splitting your business is an option, but again be very careful, dont think the IR and VAT have never seen anyone try this before as they have, as long as your offices are seperate, business owned seperatley, telephones the whole lot you may be ok, but if your using the same employees to do the work be VERY careful mate, would hate to see all your hard work go up in smoke!!!   

That's also what I was told Trevor. They have to be two totally (in every sense) seperate businesses. They will come down like a ton of bricks on you otherwise!!

[Moderator David@stives]

Trev

What I was trying to say was, if the VAT man can see you operating 2 similar companies, he will decide straight away if he will allow it to continue. They told me this on the phone, I went into great lengths with them and they explained everything.

When you first apply for Vat he looks at all your tax accounts.

I didnt go throught with it myself as the admin wasnt worth the tax saving, as you explained in the second part of your post, there is a lot of boxes to tick, some get by this by legit means which is a topic in itself

the best advice i always give people is dont speculate, just pick up the phone.

[Moderator David@stives]

In case I have caused any confusion, see below what I was trying to say.

[Moderator David@stives]

the following are examples of when "HMRC would at least " make further enquiries:

■Separate entities supply registered and unregistered customers
In this type of separation, the registered entity supplies any registered customers and the unregistered part supplies unregistered customers.
■Same equipment/premises used by different entities on a regular basis
In this type of situation, a series of entities operates the same equipment and/or premises for a set period in any one-week or month. Generally the premises and/or equipment is owned by one of the parties who charges rent to the others. This situation may occur in launderettes and take-aways such as fish and chip shops or mobile catering equipment such as ice cream vans.
■Splitting up of what is usually a single supply
This type of separation is common in the bed and breakfast trade where one entity supplies the bed and another the breakfast. Another is in the livery trade where one entity supplies the stabling and another, the hay to feed the animals.
■Artificially separated businesses which maintain the appearance of a single business
This type of separation includes pubs in which the bar and catering may be artificially separated. In most cases the customer will consider the food and the drinks as bought from the pub and not from two independent businesses. The relationship between the parties in such circumstances will be important here as truly franchised "shop within a shop" arrangements will not normally be considered artificial.
■One person has a controlling influence in a number of entities which all make the same type of supply in diverse locations
In this type of separation a number of outlets which make the same type of supplies are run by separate companies which are under the control of the same person. Although this is not as frequently encountered as some of the other situations, the resulting tax loss may be significant.
top ^13.6 The meaning of financial, economic and organisational links
Again each case will depend on its specific circumstances. The following examples illustrate the types of factors indicative of the necessary links, although there will be many others:

Financial links

■financial support given by one part to another part;
■one part would not be financially viable without support from another part;
■•common financial interest in the proceeds of the business.
Economic links

■seeking to realise the same economic objective;
■the activities of one part benefit the other part;
■supplying the same circle of customers.
Organisational links

■common management;
■common employees;
■common premises;
■common equipment.
top ^13.7 How the measure will apply in particular circumstances
■Franchised businesses
HMRC do not expect this measure to affect genuine, as opposed to artificial, franchising.
■Hairdressers
The existing agreement between the National Hairdressers Federation and HMRC is used to determine whether or not a stylist working in a salon is an employee or a self-employed person. The new measure applies only to self-employed persons. HMRC will amalgamate those self-employed stylists who are artificially separated provided that the legal criteria are met.
■Self employed taxi drivers
The ways in which taxi firms operate can vary. Only those firms, which operate in such a way that the legal criteria are met, will be registered by HMRC as a single business.
■Businesses already registered for VAT
The measures enable HMRC to register businesses which otherwise would not be registered for VAT. Consequently HMRC will not use their powers to amalgamate when all of the parties involved are already VAT registered. However, where the powers are invoked, existing registrations will be cancelled from a current date and the newly amalgamated businesses will be registered with a new number.
■Registration date for amalgamated businesses
When HMRC invoke the measures, the liability to be registered as a single business will take effect from the date of the direction, or such later date as may be specified in the direction.
■Penalties
The new measures do not introduce any fresh penalty provisions. However, should artificial separation continue as a means of avoiding VAT, the position on penalties will be reconsidered.
■Appeals
Businesses, which disagree with HMRC’s decision, will be able to appeal to the VAT and duties tribunal.
The basis of the Tribunal’s decision will continue to be whether HMRC could reasonably have been satisfied that there were grounds for treating all the separated parts as a single taxable person, given the legal criteria and the purpose of the legislation.
top ^13.8 Advice on proposed separations
It is a matter for the parties concerned, after due consideration of all the relevant factors, to determine how to structure their business activities. Accordingly HMRC will not advise on the VAT consequences of any proposed structure" but we will give a decision when faced with an actual situation".