[AuRavelling79]

Thanks for your view Trevor. It does seem that your views hark back to the 1960's in more ways than one. Perhaps your old guys in the 1960's would have fondly remembered sending kids up chimneys in Victorian times ... after all how many of them really got lung diseases eh?

As for running a dirty hose thru' custies houses that is ridiculous - all I do is get a damp towel and run the hose through it when I put it away. To run it through a house without dirtying the carpet is quite simple. I pull it off the reel in coils about 1 metre deep. I then lay it on the floor as I go and out the back of the property. Good quality microbore can be pinched in a patio/back door without losing flow if you are practiced at it.

When finished I simply pick up the hose as I go. No mess, no dirt. I happily run my hose through some of the poshest homes in the area with no problems whatsoever.

Tell me, what do you do when only one of you is working and no one is about to foot the ladder, like the majority of window cleaners? Take a chance?

And what about garage roofs of 1930's mock-tudor homes with brittle brosely tiles? Do you crunch your way over those or do you deign to ask the householder to let you through their property - if your ladders will make it through without taking that nice picture by Edvard Munch off the wall with the stiles?

[trevor perry]

Thanks for your view Trevor. It does seem that your views hark back to the 1960's in more ways than one. Perhaps your old guys in the 1960's would have fondly remembered sending kids up chimneys in Victorian times ... after all how many of them really got lung diseases eh?

As for running a dirty hose thru' custies houses that is ridiculous - all I do is get a damp towel and run the hose through it when I put it away. To run it through a house without dirtying the carpet is quite simple. I pull it off the reel in coils about 1 metre deep. I then lay it on the floor as I go and out the back of the property. Good quality microbore can be pinched in a patio/back door without losing flow if you are practiced at it.

When finished I simply pick up the hose as I go. No mess, no dirt. I happily run my hose through some of the poshest homes in the area with no problems whatsoever.

Tell me, what do you do when only one of you is working and no one is about to foot the ladder, like the majority of window cleaners? Take a chance?

And what about garage roofs of 1930's mock-tudor homes with brittle brosely tiles? Do you crunch your way over those or do you deign to ask the householder to let you through their property - if your ladders will make it trough without taking that nice picture by Edvard Munch off the wall with the stiles?

all jobs are weighed up individually and no i wouldnt carry equipment over brittle tiled roof but the original post was about climbing over rear yard walls, if you cleaned in an area where there are rows and rows of terraces and you was to make arrangements to go through each house are get each back gate left open and miss ones that whernt then you would struggle to make the round viable.
 you come across as extremely anti ladder and maybe through your experience you feel that is justified, a thread last week talked about people suffering shoulder pains etc due to water fed pole in the future who knows what HSE may come up with regarding repetitive strain injury and no doubt their will be ones come forward saying it has caused them alsorts of injuries.
 the argument being if something is used incorrectly it can cause injuries this is true in any career are we going to stop butchers using knives because one cut of his finger. ladders are not banned and should always be used with caution if you decide not to use them that is your choice but do not slag me of as being not concerned with health and safety because i do use them on occasions.
 as for your silly comment about sending children up chimneys and them getting lung disease you being such a concerned person you  should maybe stop driving vehicles around which pump toxic chenmicals into the air causing lung problems like astma etc.

[AuRavelling79]

Malc his men work in 2s so there would be one at each end of the ladder as he carried it through 
 i have carried a ladder through a house before now when all the doors have lined up 

Why would you guys do that when you can use your dexterity to "safely" go over a garage?  

[AuRavelling79]

Got a chance of a couple of houses but means using a ladder to drag hose over the garages. What do you guys do in these circumstances - clamber over or just offer the fronts, i dont what to lose the chance of doing them as i am still round building.

No, Trevor the first post was not about climbing over yard walls - see above to remind you of what the first post was actually about ... :

[trevor perry]

Got a chance of a couple of houses but means using a ladder to drag hose over the garages. What do you guys do in these circumstances - clamber over or just offer the fronts, i dont what to lose the chance of doing them as i am still round building.

No, Trevor the first post was not about climbing over yard walls - see above to remind you of what the first post was actually about ... :

  your quite right malc what must it be like never to be wrong

[SteveAllan]

Walls or Garages whatever is in the way. I didnt think i would be invoking such a lengthy debate - Peace

[wizclean]

SOME GOOD POST TREVOR I AGREE I THINK ITS MORE CANT BE BOTHERED TO CLEAN THE BACK BECAUSE OF THE AGGRO RATHER THAN SAFETY ISSUES. BUT PERHAPS THATS WHY I PICK UP OTHER PEOPLES WORK BECAUSE THEY CANT BE BOTHERED TO DO THE WHOLE JOB. WHAT DID WE EVER DO BEFORE WFP

[trevor perry]

Trevor im interested in the little tricks if you dont mind expanding,im always open to new ideas

stan i know you use spikes when these are attached to ladder they run at same angle as ladder this makes them less effective before you attach them to ladder bend them in a vice so as when the ladder is set at the right angle the spikes run vertical this makes them much more effective.
  not a new idea but something that has been forgotten about
 

[AuRavelling79]

Walls or Garages whatever is in the way. I didnt think i would be invoking such a lengthy debate - Peace

Walls and gates are more suitable for ladder use (due to their generally being six foot high or less your feet don't have to be more than about four feet off the ground. Garages are definitely not IME. (As you've probably guessed! )

I'll never apologise for banging the drum against unnecessary ladder use, Steve - over my years in this business I've known of w/c's die, become brain-damaged, never walk again or simply lose months off of work due to a fall. I personally climbed ladders about 100 times a day, often to first floor and occasionally to second floor. Never fell but had a few near misses. Now I use a short ladder for only for gates and sometimes for high groundfloor window cleaning work.

Just because previous generations smoked forty a day without a care in the world or sprayed cars without PPE or simply drove without seatbelts doesn't mean that you or I need to.

You just talk to your customers about the issues and you come to an accommodation with them - if they want you to risk your neck just because some "numpty" will if you don't - well who wants custy's like that?

If you become skilled at wfp you will reach far more previously innaccessible windows and rooflights than you could hope to get to using ladders. You can do backs of terraces quite easily - I've got quite a few. You just have to be imaginative and you will offer a really good service to your custy's.

[johns window kleen]

[WHAT DID WE EVER DO BEFORE WFP ?]

Fall off of ladders.
 

[trevor perry]

You just talk to your customers about the issues and you come to an accommodation with them - if they want you to risk your neck just because some "numpty" will if you don't - well who wants custy's like that?

you cant help yourself can you why is someone a "numpty" if they use ladders, you have put your reasons for not using ladders now because others disagree you resort to name calling very mature malc

[trevor perry]

Walls and gates are more suitable for ladder use (due to their generally being six foot high or less your feet don't have to be more than about four feet off the ground. Garages are definitely not IME. (As you've probably guessed! )

look at the statistics most injuries from falls occur at heights below 6ft

[AuRavelling79]

Trevor, you really need to read more carefully my friend. I said that if a custy wants you to risk your neck because some other numpty will then who wants them for a custy?

I call a person who risks their neck to reach a window unsafely a numpty - whatever method they use. But it's the attitude of the custy I'm calling into question.

And I take your point about falls from lower height being more frequent - possibly due to complacency - but they are by their very nature less likely to be as damaging as the ones from greater height.

[trevor perry]

Walls or Garages whatever is in the way. I didnt think i would be invoking such a lengthy debate - Peace

Walls and gates are more suitable for ladder use (due to their generally being six foot high or less your feet don't have to be more than about four feet off the ground. Garages are definitely not IME. (As you've probably guessed! )

I'll never apologise for banging the drum against unnecessary ladder use, Steve - over my years in this business I've known of w/c's die, become brain-damaged, never walk again or simply lose months off of work due to a fall. I personally climbed ladders about 100 times a day, often to first floor and occasionally to second floor. Never fell but had a few near misses. Now I use a short ladder for only for gates and sometimes for high groundfloor window cleaning work.

Just because previous generations smoked forty a day without a care in the world or sprayed cars without PPE or simply drove without seatbelts doesn't mean that you or I need to.

You just talk to your customers about the issues and you come to an accommodation with them - if they want you to risk your neck just because some "numpty" will if you don't - well who wants custy's like that?

If you become skilled at wfp you will reach far more previously innaccessible windows and rooflights than you could hope to get to using ladders. You can do backs of terraces quite easily - I've got quite a few. You just have to be imaginative and you will offer a really good service to your custy's.

in the context of the paragraph it looks to me like your calling someone who uses a ladder a numpty and you are entitled to that opinion, i may be wrong and you didnt mean this but i think both sides of debate have been heard and i am not willing to get into a petty tit for tat argument on the forum good luck with your  business malc i guess we will agree to disagree

[Chameleon]

I've just read the whole of this thread...
Malc I don't think it looks like you were calling any - one particular a Numpty!

Your argument is sound!

I agree there are those (and always will be) people who will take chances... No Sorry... Unnecessary chances, when working! :

As I read this thread I thought...
What if Jet-packs came to be the safest way of working at height?
Some would still choose to use ladders! :

[Chameleon]

What if Jet-packs came to be the safest way of working at height?
Some would still choose to use ladders! :

id stick with ladders ,remember the space shuttle 

Well, what about the "Glider board" used in back to the future?

[trevor perry]

What if Jet-packs came to be the safest way of working at height?
Some would still choose to use ladders! :

id stick with ladders ,remember the space shuttle 

Well, what about the "Glider board" used in back to the future?

put me down for one 

thats just unsafe stan , you will need one for each foot and a skyhook too just incase they fail.

[Window Washers]

What if Jet-packs came to be the safest way of working at height?
Some would still choose to use ladders! :

id stick with ladders ,remember the space shuttle 

Well, what about the "Glider board" used in back to the future?

put me down for one 

thats just unsafe stan , you will need one for each foot and a skyhook too just incase they fail.

Them sky hooks are meant to be very good, but very hard to find 

[Chameleon]

What if Jet-packs came to be the safest way of working at height?
Some would still choose to use ladders! :

id stick with ladders ,remember the space shuttle 

Well, what about the "Glider board" used in back to the future?

put me down for one 

thats just unsafe stan , you will need one for each foot and a skyhook too just incase they fail.

Them sky hooks are meant to be very good, but very hard to find 

While you're there... what about the next time you're at the mechanic's ask for a...
 "L-O-N-G WEIGHT" (long wait, found that one out with the REME)  :