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Commercial Versus Residential
« on: March 09, 2005, 09:22:39 pm »
I'm in the process of dumping most of my commercial work, and I'll tell you why;

My commercial work ranges from a handfull of shops, most which I do sub-contract,and a large Hilton Hotel. 

The shops I sub-contract for pay very little, but only expect the 'minimum' from me.  'Just keep 'em looking nice', I was told.  So for a large Woolworths shop front, twice a week I was paid  £20.00.  I would normally want £40.00 to £50.00 for the same job. 

So, I only gave them £10.00 worth of work per clean.  The same went for Sommerfields and Chepstow Castle shop.  There were no problems for my work.  I've (this evening) cancelled the contract and gave the contractor the name of another window cleaner who wants to take them on (it's one of Ian_Giles's ex-employees).

I'm not complaining mind - it was all above board - and when I didn't have any other work, or when inclement weather was about - it helped pay the bills.  Also I didn't send the vouchers off every month and saved up the invoices.  So when a large cheque arrived, it was nice.

As for the Hilton Hotel; one of my major mistakes; I seriously underpriced the job.  However, I wasn't the cheapest bid, and very similar to some other quotes the manager showed me. 

It wasn't too bad in deepest darkest winter when everyone was on this forum, complaining the wind and rain stopped them from working.  I was in the Hilton, doing loads of inside work and having a good lunch for free.

As for other quotes we've given for commercial work, we've taken time off from residential window cleaning to do it.  Once we spent most of the day, travelling from site to site, then spent time typing up our quote; only to hear no answer what-so-ever.  After a winge on this site, I was advised to phone the companies up and ask 'why' we didn't get the job.  But I know why.  We 'over quoted'.  Too expensive.  I was listening to an 'other forum' at the time where lads were quoting £300.00 for three hours work.  I didn't quote that mind.  But neither did I get the work.

With residential properties, it seems, the customer is limited to what window cleaner they can get, so if you're expensive and trust you, you'll get the job. 

But with a prestigous company, they phone five or six window cleaning companies and pick who they want.  If it doesn't work out, they know they can get others.

Now, however, I've claimed loads of residential, and I find I can make far more money per hour from these, than I can cleaning commercial properties.  Okay, I know the pain is collecting the money, but I'm pushing standing orders, so hopefully this won't be so much of a bottom ache in the future.

Is that the case - residential is better than commercial work?  Or have I been doing something wrong?



thewindowcleaner1

  • Posts: 779
Re: Commercial Versus Residential
« Reply #1 on: March 09, 2005, 09:35:18 pm »
I love my domestic work... over the years have been steadly picking commercial work up no problems priceing though as I normally charge more than domestic and I do them very early in the morning so that they never realise how little work is involved...
More recently Have been ask to tender for larger jobs and to date have had no failures .. If the work is a distance from my round I build into the price traveling time and a mileage allowance.. and as I use a WFP I also estimate how much they are saving by not having to use expensive excess equipment and find a way of pointing this out to them..... and if I don't get the job because they've had a cheeper quote ... good luck to them ... I know my worth
The secret is not doing as you like but liking what you do
www.thewindowcleaner.biz

Roy Harding

  • Posts: 1973
Re: Commercial Versus Residential
« Reply #2 on: March 09, 2005, 09:37:43 pm »
Hi Tosh as you know most of my work is domestic and rural, I find you can charge more than in town and  be paid quicker. :) I don’t do any housing estates, as these are the first to get targeted by people starting up, hence the prices are kept low. Another bonus is not all your eggs are in one basket, if you loose a big contract hit hurts.  :(

D G Windows

  • Posts: 30
Re: Commercial Versus Residential
« Reply #3 on: March 09, 2005, 09:49:08 pm »
I tend to mix them both in, but i only have one big commercial which is a college, i have a few £30 shops and a few smaller ones but i just add them in with the round.

I think id just bring a few rental guys in for a day or two if i got anymore comm work.
Cos it does bring in good cash very quickly.

AuRavelling79

  • Posts: 25385
Re: Commercial Versus Residential
« Reply #4 on: March 09, 2005, 09:51:29 pm »
Some of each I say - I like some commercial esp. if insides need doing too so I can have somewhere to go when its belting down. I also like it so's I can start early in spring/summer and have say £100 on the clock by mid morning.

But I also like rural (as per Roy Harding's comments) and some local estates you can "fly around".

I've got a good mix and would like a little more consolidation on my residential stuff. (eg a few less two's and three's together and more sixes and dozens together)

I'd also like a bit more cream but when it does come I'm always on edge I'm going to lose it!
It's a game of three halves!

mark f

  • Posts: 212
Re: Commercial Versus Residential
« Reply #5 on: March 09, 2005, 09:52:48 pm »
commercial work definitly pays a lot more if you can be doing with the hassle i havnt yet made the switch although i know what some mates are earning and it is £££££££££££££££££££

rosskesava

Re: Commercial Versus Residential
« Reply #6 on: March 09, 2005, 10:02:59 pm »
We have 2 full days a week of commercial work and although it can get boring, it's cash every week almost regardless of the weather.

Some of our resindential work is in ho hum boredom middle of town (yawn) but most is in stunning countryside. For me, the driving in and around the South Downs often next to the sea - can't beat it especially on a hot summers day.

So for me, it's a mix. The commercial work is almost a certainty week in week out with the odd bit of hassle and the resindential work is enjoyment most of the time but weather dependant. And with private houses... you sometimes get cups of tea with biscuits.

One pays the bills and the other is the spending money.

bobjarrett

  • Posts: 27
Re: Commercial Versus Residential
« Reply #7 on: March 13, 2005, 10:18:36 am »
picked up a commercial job few mths ago priced it up , sat down with manager to discuss price his draw nearly dropped , a big cleaning company were doing job before , that are into all aspects of cleaning ie carpets offices etc , and when i say this i dont mean to offend anybody cos they run a very succesful large bussines , when they pay there operators 5 to 6 pound an hour they can sometimes put in a lower quote than a guy working on his own , . but this also has its plusses afew years ago had one house in a very middle class area , 3 guys used too clean most of st who worked for big firm with no heart and sole , they charged 8 i got all st charging 12 per hse now worth lots , simply because i provide a good reliable clean service . as said before i dont want to cause offence , the big cleaning firm has been very succesful but thats just business
bob jarrett-smear clear windows

Re: Commercial Versus Residential
« Reply #8 on: March 13, 2005, 11:41:19 am »
Nno names mentioned but a comapany i know in oxford does NO residential at all only commecial and turns over 40,000 per month.four wfp vans just think you have to be in the right place at the right time i have been lucky with the commercial work where i am as there is hardly any competition.

Ian_Giles

  • Posts: 2986
Re: Commercial Versus Residential
« Reply #9 on: March 13, 2005, 12:43:35 pm »
Tosh,
I did the 'Woolies' before you, was a complete pain in the rear, I resented it every time I cleaned it.
Price is just so tight on it.
These people eventually lose out, check out most banks, they centralise, one contractor who then subs the work out to increasingly smaller firms, usually ending out with someone local. (If they are lucky)
These buildings end out not getting cleaned regularly, they spend more time being grubby than clean, That certainly applies to all of the banks in our 2 local towns, Chepstow and Caldicot.
Its a shame each individual bank cannot chose and pay a local window cleaner. If a window cleaner has to do all of say, Lloyds banks in a 25 mile radius, he has to spend a lot of time travelling just to do a single account, as against slipping it seamlessly into normal round if he is just cleaning work local to him.
The price then has to be relatively expensive to cover costs. So he subs it out to a local guy, who has to put a really tight price in if he wants the work, the guy he is subbing for has to take a percentage after all, and this company is probably subbing to a national company who also have to take a percentage.

so corners get cut, or the job only gets done when the manager has a moan about the state of the windows :-\
Then of course the manager is also hamstrung if he wants extra's done.
If you are the window cleaner and are asked to do work not covered in your quote, you have to seek permission up the chain of command (so to speak) else you may not get paid.
The company you are contracting to has to do the same, usually waiting from permission from the head office of the bank manager.
A total pain, and I for one try to avoid those jobs like the plague.

I hope that the Hilton do contact me (courtesy of Tosh AKA windows_Chepstow) I would like to price up a job like this, even if only for the experience :-[
Window cleaning on jobs like these are genuinely expensive, it isn't a £50 job that hardly makes a dent in expenses, so managers tend to look at the cheapest price, or at least a very competitive price.
But such competitive pricing ends out being counter productive, those that get the job often end out in the position of Tosh and find the renumeration recieved isn't sufficient to cancel out the hassle of doing the job, invoicing, the constant chasing for money and so on.
End result is a constant stream of new window cleaners.

Commercial work can pay incredibly well, but the reverse can also apply :-\

I have loads of shops, the cheapest of which is £1.50 per clean :o Loads more around the £2.50 mark.
How the hell can someone trying to get into shops compete with that? You need dozens of these shops all close together, once you have that they make you real money, getting there can be so hard though, in most towns there are between 2 and 4 firms competing for the work.
If you are lucky, one of these will have folded up/retired/moved on and if you are in the right place at the right time you can move in get some of the work.

Unless he has sold the work on of course :'(

But then maybe you were the one he sold it to ;D

Ian
Ian. ISM CLEANING SERVICES

Re: Commercial Versus Residential
« Reply #10 on: March 14, 2005, 07:59:44 pm »
Thanks for the advice, guys.

I still think I'm doing the right thing by dropping my low paid commercial work.  If I was a little more shrewd I could just hike my prices up; but the thought of us spending 3 days a month cleaning a massive Hilton Hotel (I'm not WFP - and even if I were; there's TONS of inside work; not suitable for WFP) just does not thrill me.  Even if the price was better. 

We really got on well with the Manager; he was a bit of a 'Jack the Lad' himself; and like having a female window cleaner on premises.  The other hotel staff really seemed to like us too (especially the assistant manager (a gay/camp bloke) who took a shine to me - laughed at all my naff jokes and stuff).

As a traditional window cleaners (for the time being) I believe we can earn more per unit of glass; than we could on a large commercial jobs.

The Hilton was a steep learning curve and I did make mistakes though.  I've also quoted for other big jobs.  Late last year I spent a day pricing four large factory units and a local newspaper office and distribution centre.

To tell the truth, I didn't really want to take on anymore LARGE jobs; as it's only me and the missis doing the job.  My Local Pages add, BT Phone Book add, and now Yellow Pages add doesn't give that impression mind.

So I priced high (or average if you take some of what you read here for real); and we didn't get one job. 

We acted just as professionally as we did with the Hilton job; so I doubt it was our 'turnout and bearing'.

They obviously went for the cheaper quote!

Most residential customers do not have that luxury!