[Seers]

Hi,

I have just been asked to quote on a massive clear up operation. Will need to supply 40 cleaners for 10 days, working ten hour shifts. On an industrial scale, post builders site, basically litter picking and cleaning/polishing machinery and plant and general tidy.

Come on, who could give me a ball park figure?

Already doing costings now, will have to include eight nights accomodation also and hire of three minibuses. Have to get quote in by Monday and maybe start next week.

The figures are blowing my mind. May need help with manpower if anyone is near South Wales.

Cheers,

Huw

[Jonny jones]

based on 40 cleaner 8hr days 10 days

£32,000 + vat

sorry im in north wales,  cant help toon far

theres enough factorys closing downb there stand outside one that isnt shut yet, it soon ill be

thanx jonny

[Griffus]

Surely if you are big enough to quote for this (with a realistic chance of actually getting and completing the job), then you know what your quote should be.

You must already have all details and from what you say this is predominantly the supply of labour.

40 x 10 x 10 + accomodation, vehicle hire, travelling, overheads, profit margin etc.

Wages alone at minimum wage are around £24000 and this is not allowing for increased OT rates.
If using agency you can up this to at least £30000.
Accomodation will cost a minimum of £18000 and it's very unlikely you'll find a single location that can help.

I would say you are looking at a minimum COST of £50000. You will then have to decide what you need to make out of this and add on.

You will of course be paying out well before payment will be received.

If you do not employ this many staff already then do you propose using agency staff? You will struggle to find 40 staff at short notice, never mind 40 that you can rely on. If you do manage to source 40 then I would add another 5 to allow for no-shows. You will certainly have to use multiple agencies which brings many more issues to the table.

In truth, some jobs are just too big to risk. Unless you are already experienced on this scale I would leave well alone.

Best of luck

[suffolkclean]

Ian - sounds like good advice to me, would have to have a huge cashflow for this type of job then how long will it be before you get paid.

Massive amount of work to undertake, if quoting I would allow costs for using agency as already said unless you have 40 people at the moment you will struggle.

Good Luck

[Seers]

Hi,

It is a huge job....not the run of the mill for any size company I would imagine.

The major issue is getting the temporary staff at such short notice. So much could potentially go wrong, but if we pulled it off it would be great.

Cashflow not a problem, will have a temporary facility in place, and were used to waiting for payment in the construction industry. The main thing i'm trying to work out is how much reward you feel is needed at the end to make such as a job, and cost worthwile?

Otherwise, maybe best to leave well alone....if company didn't pay up, it's business closure time!

Cheers,

Huw

[Seers]

Hi Ian,

Just re-read your post and your bang on with my figure on labour cost and just under on total cost. I honestly don't know whether to risk pushing the boat out on this one. It would be a massive headache, but great for the cv if successful.

Cheers,

Huw.

[mk1]

£60.000 + vat + any consumables it will make you or break you tough call in the present economic climate.construction companys are falling like flys  : :

[Griffus]

Hi Huw, You must think very carefully as this could take you under (assuming you are successful with your quote). For me this job would not be possible. I assume you will have regular Op's still running whilst this job goes on. I would also expect the company for which you have been asked to quote to expect certain guarantees, including assurances on H & S, man-management and guarantee of timely completion.

My background is large scale contracts (admittedly in logistics and not cleaning; but then everything is logistics and logistics is everything). Our mark-up varied from as much as we could get back in the good old days to as low as 8% in more recent times.

I know of certain jobs where crazy prices were quoted with some jobs being done at a loss but as part of a bigger picture ultimately reaping longer term rewards. I mention this as you are likely to be up against the big boys on such a job who have the capability to do this.

If it is your reputation that you are thinking about then it may actually be bad PR rather than good that you find.

Before quoting I would check all possible avenues of resource as I would be truly stunned if you could get 40 workers at such short notice. It is no good quoting then falling at the first hurdle.

If you have no existing relationships with agencies they are unlikely to deal with you without substantial assurances of the financial type. They are also likely to give you all of their deadwood unless they think there will be more work in future. This is where you tell a little lie and say this is the first large scale job of many; this should also help you get the hourly rate down. Any overtime should be paid on wages only, the agency mark-up should always be at flat rate.

One other thing; I have years of experience with agencies and they are full of bullpoo. No offence intended but they are sales and sales rarely say that they can't do something until it is too late and you are up the creek without a paddle. There are also too many grey areas to iron out before entering into a contract with any of them without at least one good in depth meeting.

If you are brave enough (read insane:-)  ) to quote and can be sure to actually be able to carry out then You should be looking for AT LEAST 15% mark-up on top of all costs; thus £7500 Gross Profit on £50000 cost for two weeks of hell. If there is no chance of repeat or future work I would put on 20% - 25%. Remember to price in at least 4 supervisors otherwise payable hours WILL be way more than you quoted.

I have almost certainly missed out loads of stuff but then that's the danger on a job of this size with not enough preparation time.

[mark dew]

What an interesting post.
This is premier league stuff, but in this economic climate is it worth risking what you have built up so far for the sake of £7.5K?
Pulling it off and getting it on your cv might be worth the risk for future gain, but not (i don't think) for £7.5K?
I would love to know how you get on with this. Good luck with it if you do take it on.

[stfc]

to be honest i think u should go for it if u thnik u can do it.

[Griffus]

Why is the request at such short notice? Has another company let them down or are they so badly organised that this job came as a 'surprise' to them??

Given proper time for planning and setting up, including a good talk with you bank and the customer regarding the financials then this job would be achievable.

At short notice even a very large company would struggle. For this reason it has to either be left well alone or carried out via a revised and more realistic schedule.

I truly can't believe this job even exists. It sounds too badly thought out to be true. One thing is for sure, unless the Customer has no chance of getting the job done next week without speding a fortune. 

If you are determined to proceed then meet with the Customer, talk it through, tell him what you need and what you can give, talk with you sponsor or bank manager to ensure finances are available to pay your bills, talk with all avenues of resource and get solid agreements in place, including contingencies for when a % of workers fail to show (this will happen daily).

Finally work out your costs and add your mark-up then include a more realistic schedule in your quote.

[Seers]

Hi Ian,

They only decided on friday afternoon that they needed the job done. They were hoping trades would clear up behind themselves! They were going to use some of their own guys on site but have let 500 go and they want to bring in "grafters", as they think the job would take to long with the guys they have left.

Bear in mind the site has 2,500 tradesmen working at the moment. They are hoping for job completion on 19th December, but I think there may be some play in this date.

I'm still not sure what to do. But they told me only one other company was quoting and the guy didn't seem that interested in travelling up for a site meeting.

Cheers,

Huw.

[Griffus]

Hi Huw, I would try to arrange weekly billing. This would eliminate any cash flow issues.

This just leaves the minor issues of Resource and H & S.

The more I hear the less I would choose to get involved. That said; one should never say never.

I think your first port of call is a site visit; see the job for yourself and meet the Customer to get a clear picture of what is required / possible.

Let us know how you get on.

Best wishes

Ian

[Seers]

Hi Ian,

I met the client yesterday, and as I mentioned the site is on a massive scale 2-3 miles square, but the cleaning is pretty simple, just labour intensive. Finance is in place, got roughly half the bodies ready. So all I have to do now is email quote. Might have about eight vans and a lot of equipment for sale in two weeks if it all goes wrong!

Cheers,

Huw.

[mike b]

Hi huw if you need men i have 4 spare men at mo and van and equipment if i can help you in any way let me no? mike

[js lee]

can't help with quote figures i'm afraid but as i work for a cleaning agency I can def. help with proving reliable cleaning staff at short notice. We would take care of all the paper work wages etc. Let me know Josh 07742336052.

[Griffus]

Josh, what company do you work for? Are you national or regional and do you have a website?

[Seers]

Hi,

The job is on, we start tomorrow! Staff sorted, we're only taking twenty for the first week to see how we get on and then maybe up the numbers after that. Just hope they pay!

Cheers,

Huw

[mark dew]

Hi,

The job is on, we start tomorrow! Staff sorted, we're only taking twenty for the first week to see how we get on and then maybe up the numbers after that. Just hope they pay!

Cheers,

Huw

Good on you. Fortune favours the brave. 

[kelly acs]

good on you for going ahead with it. If you need extra hands in the second week please email the details of the job to kelly=-acs@btconnect.com as i can arrange up to 5 people plus 2 vans at short notice if the paty is right. Good luck