[kinder clean]

As a Newbie I have completed my training courses and read as much info as I can get my hands on and I remember being warned about certain 'high risk cleans' such as Belgian wiltons, I understand that the pattern on the reverse side of the carpet on a belgian wilton is almost as strong as the pattern on the front, but do any of you guys have other methods of identification?

Are there other high risk carpets that can be problematic?

Paul

[Mike Osbourne]

Paul

Do a float test with a fibre. It will float if polyprop.

After a while you will spot BW designs, but if you have a set pattern of testing then you won't get caught out.

[Karl Wildey]

Mike  test is probably the easier way to check, I would go with that

[markpowell]

Paul,
BW used to normally be patterned carpets but there are a lot of plain BW out there now.
There are also loads of polyprop carpets that are not BW and you can clean them to your hearts content without having any problems. When you do a float test and the fibre floats you have a polyprop face fibre.
In this case you need to lift the carpet and inspect the backing, if the jute weft shots run in both directions crossing each other you have a belgian wilton.
Belgian Wiltons can be cleaned successfully with HWE, make sure all the fixings are secure if your not happy get some carpet tacks and tack the carpet to the gripper every foot or so leaving some of the tack proud so that the customer can remove with pliers when dry, or you can call back and do it. Explain to the customer what you are doing and why!
Make sure you keep the moisture down and make plenty of vaccum only passes. If you do these basic checks then Belgian wiltons can be cleaned without any problems, but be careful they are becoming more popular and they are not all colourful and patterned anymore some are plain.
Mark

[kinder clean]

Thanks for that Mark, great advice.

Paul

[*paul_moss]

Paul go and spend a few hours looking at swatchs in carpet right or a local lage carpet retailers shop. This will help identify them 

[Jim_77]

After you get a little more experienced, you should be able to spot polyprop fibres the instant you lay eyes on the carpet, without having to pull bits out and float/burn them.  Next step is to go to the edge where the fibres aren't matted together and split them apart - you'll be able to clearly see if it's a tufted or woven construction.

Until you lose "the fear" please do carry on being very cautios to make sure you don't start extracting a BW without realising!

One word of caution regarding extracting BWs - although I'm sure Mark is confident in his abilities to clean them using extraction, I'd err on the side of caution at first!

Half the problem with these carpets is the fibres matting down in the traffic lanes, causing a very visible difference in appearance.  On more than one occasion I've had a customer walk in to the room straight after I've vacuumed and only partially lifted the pile and they've done the usual "Oooh it looks like brand new!!" thing that embarrasses you when you know you haven't really "cleaned" the carpet at all yet!

As an alternative to HWE I could advise the following:

> A very thorough vacuum with an upright that has a good strong brush (I use a Royal).  This will begin to lift the pile.  I find it best to go across the pile first (one direction normally achieves a slight pile lift) and then turn around so I'm facing the direction the pile points towards, therefore the vac's brush is pulling it upwards.
>Pre-spray a suitable prespray for low moisture cleaning (microsplitters or colloids are ideal).
> Give it absolute bloody hell with a rotary and stiff brush attachment.  (Something like a host or envirodri CRB machine may do similar, but I've never used one so couldn't comment on the difference)
> Re-spray up to an acceptable/required level and bonnet clean
> Groom pile making sure you're pulling it back to stand upright

[Jim_77]

How's this for an idea?

One day you're bound to come across a trashed one.  You could use this situation as "free" training, I've done it myself in the past, in different situations.

You could approach this by explaining to the customer that due to shrinkage risks it may not be possible to clean this carpet satisfactorily, because of the issue with high soil/low moisture requirement.  Test the water a little, pose the question that if the carpet won't clean up to a satisfactory result would they probably just replace it?  If the answer is a definite "yes", ask them if they would be willing for you to attempt cleaning it anyway, at no cost to them but with no guarantee of the outcome.

Emphasise that you can try a "last resort" approach that does carry a chance of shrinking the carpet, but reaffirm that if shrinkage does occur they won't be losing anything as they'd be replacing it anyway.  You need to make sure they are in full understanding and agreement on this matter!

If they agree, get them to sign a disclaimer and fire away at it with HWE!  Get it a little wetter than you'd normally dare and see what happens.

I bet you'd find that as long as the fitting's sound you could quite a bit more moisture than you thought!  You may even end up with a miracle result and a few quid for your trouble.  You may also end up walking away from a smiley-edged carpet with nothing for your trouble apart from an important lesson learned

[Jim_77]

Are there other high risk carpets that can be problematic?

You're taking a risk cleaning anything if you don't understand the potential pitfalls!

Axminster and Wilton constructions carry the same shrinkage risks, but to a lesser degree due to the fact that the wool will hold on to much more moisture, thus giving you a little "headroom" in your moisture levels.  Again, fitting is the problem a lot of the time.  Check all round the room, especially the door bars.  If you can't refit it simply yourself by pushing the carpet towards the gripper and tucking it in with something thin, inform the customer that it can' be cleaned until it has been professionally refitted to secure it all the way around.

Tufted carpets can shrink too, if they have a jute (hessian) backing.  You'd have to be talking about some serious over-wetting in this case though.  Again, fitting should be checked and corrected if necessary before cleaning.

Bitumen-backed carpet tiles can catch you out if you use solvent spotters on them.  The solvent will start to dissolve the bitumen and then when you extract you'll be faced with a liquorice-coloured patch where the spot was.  The more you try to rinse it out, the worse it will get!  Yes, I am speaking from experience, 60 quids worth of new tiles later 

[gwrightson]

Pondering on the suggestions of Jim,

I cannot see why if you if have the misfortune of shrinkage after you have explained the situation to custy, you give the carpet a few days to relax and the get it restreched with a power stretcher.

I know this isnt always possible but more often than not, it is an option.

Geoff

[Kinver_Clean]

Many years ago before I had heard of BW, I lightly presprayed a carpet and it went 7" on 9ft before I had a chance to pick up the floortool, pulling the gripper out of the concrete floor- 4 days before Christmas, poor lady. Cost me a new carpet, but she still got a BW.

Trevor

[markpowell]

Jim,
Im highly impressed that you can walk in a room and know straight away what face fibre the carpet is, without doing any tests ???Mark

[Jim_77]

Jim,
Im highly impressed that you can walk in a room and know straight away what face fibre the carpet is, without doing any tests ???Mark

I'm rarely far out from my initial guess

Apart from the rare plain ones, BWs normally have a recognisable pattern.  Plain tufted polyprop carpets do have a distinct appearance, the ends of the tufts reflect light in a unique way, something you don't get with wool, and their shape gives it away as the material wears differently from wool.  The matting down in the traffic lanes is also a dead giveaway, as is the type of house.  In recently built houses with beige plain tufted carpets you can almost guarantee that the carpet will be polyprop, installed by the builder.

Nylon can look like wool until you inspect further, but it won't feel the same underfoot or to the back of the hand.

Sometimes loop piles need a very careful study before you can work out whether they're wool or polyprop.  Not so easy to pull a bit out, but you can normally find a loose bit of yarn sticking out somewhere.

[Jason Hedges]

Nice one Jim

Hows about filling in your profile, nice to know who we're speaking to and where you're from

All the best,
Jason.

[Jim_77]

Ah yes, been meaning to do that since I registered nearly 2 years ago :p

[kinder clean]

Thanks for all the advice for this thread, will continue to be cautious - It was never mentioned on the training I went on about plain BW carpets, they kept going on about heavily patterned carpets & the pattern will be as strong on the reverse side. What a great forum. 

Thanks Paul