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mark f

  • Posts: 212
some honesty please from all wfp users!!!
« on: January 17, 2005, 08:21:36 pm »
I am seriously considering getting a wfp. I am in the process of getting the information together.
 I have a full month of mainly domestic work and will use the wfp to get the work done quicker so as to get some commercial high work aswell.

 Now i really would like an honest straight answer please as to how good a job these wfp's can do on domestic work and how much of a trade off it will be to say to customers they get the frames etc done because the windows are not so good. Also how strongly do have to play the new work at height regs card to keep them happy. (which i know is bordering on outright lying in many instances where i am).

 Ive been cleaning 16 years and am a v.good window cleaner that has kept nearly all my customers for that time.

 Im all for earning more cash but how much off a lesser job on the actual glass will they be getting??

  Thanks for your honesty.   ;D

denzle

Re: some honesty please from all wfp users!!!
« Reply #1 on: January 17, 2005, 09:19:53 pm »
Mark,
Your first cleans will take up a lot of water and time, you need to spend time making sure the frames are really clean, especially the top of the frame. That will stop dirty dribbles running down the glass later.
Once you have cracked that, following cleans will come up good, maybe a little spotting for the first couple of times but nothing too drastic.
Customers are very good about it i find, although i still find it odd to walk away from wet glass.
Its not an overnight thing, in fact there is a steep learning curve. But once mastered it can be quicker and is a whole lot safer.

Denzle

wrighty

  • Posts: 368
Re: some honesty please from all wfp users!!!
« Reply #2 on: January 17, 2005, 09:34:20 pm »
Hi,

Good questions and I can honestly say that I found that if you are a good window cleaner and use GG3 or GG4 and the windows are SPOTLESS then I think you will have a good fight on your hands after they are cleaned with a wfp as I really think that the traditional way is quicker and better to answer your question (residential) but obviously the pole is a lot safer.  I had a trolley system and sold it  because some of the residential customers I had went mad as their windows where spotty (you can't please em all).  Maybe I didn't give it enough time etc but I made the decision to stop cleaning the residential customers windows with a wfp.  I have people working for me and mt staff find it quicker cleaning residential properties the traditional way (work in twos) and the customers find it cleaner therefor they are happier.  On the other hand I am going to have to buy a trolley system again soon as the commercial clients of my  business are demanding I get a pole for health & safety issues.  You will find that this is the main issue commercial clients have and not how perfectly clean their windows are like the old dears in the street who take pride in their glass.  I have to say that the Commercial cleans we did with the pole where actually quicker as there was no gardens to go in and out of - it was just continual use.  I hope this helps and I am sure some will agree with what I say and others will certainly not like it and disagree - but you did ask for a honest opinion and it is my individual opinion from what I have found.  I musat say that the earning potential for add ons like shop signs, caravans,conservatory roofs are all bonuses so I would probably say is dont give up doing the residential the traditional way (especially if you are a master and I am sure you are after the years you have done it) but invest in a trolley system and do the commercial contracts you have with the pole and grow your business from there by exploiting what the pole can do ie, conservatory roofs - which I get asked for.  Anyway that is the way I am going to go with my business and I apologise in advance if it has bored anyone.  

If I can help you further then just ask

All The Best

Wrighty

wrighty

  • Posts: 368
Re: some honesty please from all wfp users!!!
« Reply #3 on: January 17, 2005, 09:42:26 pm »
Thanks Al  ;D

Duke

Re: some honesty please from all wfp users!!!
« Reply #4 on: January 17, 2005, 09:50:42 pm »
struth...it's an uphill battle....

Duke

Re: some honesty please from all wfp users!!!
« Reply #5 on: January 17, 2005, 10:18:06 pm »
I was even called a 'liar' the other week, by some disgruntled old hag...when talking about the potential/impact of the new regs. She said 'I phoned the Council....and they knew nothing about it' ........I tried to explain that some spotty student office wallah was unlikely to know the impending regs for Window Cleaners....but she wouldn't have it and I lost the job....but I'm not bothered about that ....one leaves and two join.....sod 'em....

Ian_Giles

  • Posts: 2986
Re: some honesty please from all wfp users!!!
« Reply #6 on: January 17, 2005, 10:23:13 pm »
First cleans hard work, you really have to work at it, and when you start it is such a steep learning curve :-\
The overall finish is at least as good as you will get with traditional methods, you don't need to over-promote the health and safety issues, you have to be gentle with the poor old customers, they have to learn that the job they are getting done is a professional one.
Of course spotting can occur, but you get problems with trad methods too, runs will occur, so will smears, the frames will never come up as well as with WFP and if detailing isn't done properly (when needed) that will show too.

With WFP you can't be 100% sure you have done a top job because you are leaving the glass wet, but as you gain experience you begin to know when you have done a good job.

It won't totally replace trad methods, some windows, notably those with oxidized   frames, do not come up well with WFP, but most windows are UPVC now, and not that many houses are in that poor a condition that the frames have oxidized.

If you do a sh*te job then you haven't done it correctly, that isn't a fault of the system, that is an operator fault!

I would recommend WFP to any serious window cleaner, domestic or commercial. You may well lose one or two customers, but you will gain more than you lose, and your life will be a lot easier to boot ;)

And once you have been using WFP for a couple of months you will really, and I mean REALLY! Realise how dangerous working off ladders really is.

The health and safety issues are almost incidental, WFP is quite simply a better way of cleaning windows.
I would never, ever, go back to full time traditional methods, I don't think many other WFP'ers would either ;D


Ian




Ian. ISM CLEANING SERVICES

AuRavelling79

  • Posts: 25383
Re: some honesty please from all wfp users!!!
« Reply #7 on: January 17, 2005, 10:27:06 pm »
Here's my twopenneth

Quoting Duke:- "I was even called a 'liar' the other week, by some disgruntled old hag...She said 'I phoned the Council....and they knew nothing about it' ........"

She must have nothing to do and all day to do it in if she can hang around on the phone to any council dept I've ever come across! ::)

Keep up the good work Duke she'll come to realise what brilliant service she has lost when the birds dump all over her windows in the spring! ;D

But good question and answers from everybody.

(Modified to include Ian's post)

Good points Ian

"Convinced but which one to go for?" Malc
It's a game of three halves!

matt

Re: some honesty please from all wfp users!!!
« Reply #8 on: January 17, 2005, 10:41:13 pm »
here is my advice

break them in gently  :)

start off doing the awkward windows (the 1's above porches and the obsucred windows)

do this for a few cleans, then they are used to the idea, then slowly do them all

thats what i am doing, and ive had no complaints YET

Duke

Re: some honesty please from all wfp users!!!
« Reply #9 on: January 17, 2005, 10:45:37 pm »
Good advice....I jumped in with both feet.....and took the flak for the first couple of months...but they've mostly settled down now.... :)

Pureandclean

  • Posts: 355
Re: some honesty please from all wfp users!!!
« Reply #10 on: January 18, 2005, 02:18:17 pm »
Yes, I changed area by area, first all the upvc windows, then the difficult wooden ones.
Still do a few by hand...bad paintwork, or too small to set up.
I have had 3 other window cleaners stop me and ask about wfp in the last couple of weeks....all planning to change over and wondering how to go about it.

Have you noticed the number of 3 story houses beeing built now...not much fun doing off ladders...easy with the poles.
pity I didn't know about wfp 20 years ago when I started....I think them yanks were real tight not telling us about it for 25 years.

 ::) Blessings  ::)

Graeme

mark f

  • Posts: 212
Re: some honesty please from all wfp users!!!
« Reply #11 on: January 19, 2005, 06:54:18 pm »
wow!! Thanks for all your help guys and your honesty. Im just as confused though!!

  Im finding myself looking for which of my customers have naff oxidised paint by running a finger over the paint and i have quite a lot!! I had about 6 jobs like that today! ???

 Oh well i still have time on my side!

 Thanks again. mark.

AuRavelling79

  • Posts: 25383
Re: some honesty please from all wfp users!!!
« Reply #12 on: January 19, 2005, 07:03:35 pm »
I was looking at some work done by a wfp on a house with old anodised aluminium frames and on which the operator wasn't too experienced and I was quite impressed as they hadn't been done for at least six months. There were several spots but if that's a first clean I thought it was acceptable if not brilliant.
It's a game of three halves!

Re: some honesty please from all wfp users!!!
« Reply #13 on: January 19, 2005, 08:47:19 pm »
This is a very good thread.  I'm still a traditional window cleaner (nearly two years into the proffession) and recently have gained a couple of houses from another water fed pole user.

I don't know why really.  They were excellent - and at least a month had passed since they were last cleaned and I charged them more than the previous window cleaner.

I hope to have a WFP in the next year or so (quicker/safer/easier/etc).

Is the change-over a case of educating your customers about WFP first? 

If anyone agrees... how did you do it?  Speaking to everyone of them would be a bit time consuming, boring and open to argument.    Would a cleverly written letter pushed through their letter box do the job?  Anyone got one?

Or do you adopt the atitude of just getting on with it, with your pole and if you lose some; never mind.  There's more where they come from? (This would probably be my choice).

Duke

Re: some honesty please from all wfp users!!!
« Reply #14 on: January 19, 2005, 09:07:52 pm »
there is an explanatory letter you can make fit your own needs....it's in the documents section.....

Re: some honesty please from all wfp users!!!
« Reply #15 on: January 20, 2005, 07:24:47 pm »
Thanks Duke,

I'll take a look now.