[richie]

Hi all,

A few weeks ago a contract that a friend of mine has,  had a new manager.  The new manager is happy to keep using my friend on the majority of the carpets but got a company in using DF to clean a open area of about 700sqm.  My mate is all for using safe chemicals & i gotta admit he does get top class results as  he is ALWAYS prepared to put in the extra effort.  He uses MS & MP.  He is hoping to get some  (dirt) info regarding DF that would throw these big areas back to him.  Can anyone help with the info?  The reason they are happy to use the DF is that it is been charged at about 60% less than my mate. 

Richie.

[markpowell]

Df is not a system i have used or know much about, i think the reason they can charge less is because they can clean alot quicker on areas this size.
Hwe will clean better and give better all results. If the company are happy with a maintenance plan say cleaning every 3 months or so it may be worth your mate getting some type of Lm equipment and bonnets then trying to get the contract back in full by charging  little less and cleaning 3 times as fast.
Mark

[Derek_Walker]

If he is doing commercial contracts it would definately pay to have some kind of low moisture system. They are quicker and in most cases give better results than hwe. Dry Fusion is a good selling tool, it's quiet, is dry in 30 minutes, anti-bacterial, deodoriser, stain protection, all these things make it a very attractive package. There are other systems out there like thermadry, encapsulation etc and they all have different advantages so pick the one that suits him best. If cost is a problem then just get a cheap standard speed rotary machine and some bonnets and use some mp, ms or other products like roto brite etc, these will yield great results without the expense.

[Ken Wainwright]

There are a lot of people in our industry who can not get their head around low moisture cleaning. This is easily understandable. I know I couldn't many years ago, but it is essential to look outside the rinse/extraction box.

All systems, as said by others, have their strengths and weaknesses, so, as professionals we must select an appropriate system that will deliver the appearance that we, and the client, is happy with. And remember, in a commercial environment, we should be delivering a maintenance programme, not "fire fighting" restoration.

Unfortunately, for young businesses, equipment additional to their "bread and butter" rinse/extractors means more capital investment, so this business progress can be hindered and become difficult to make.

There was an interesting article recently in Cleaning Matters by a highly respected figure in our industry.  Dr Eric Brown of Cleaning Research International tells of what we technicians perceive as beinging  problem soiling in carpets. I know Mike Halliday has found it more than interesting, so others may agree with us too. If you don't receive Cleaning Matters, look here:
http://www.cleaning-matters.co.uk/stories/articles/-/floorcare/carpet_cleaning_machines_accessories_2/colour_and_design_choices_for_specifiers/

Safe and happy reading
Ken

[gwrightson]

Not forgetting encap,

get your friend to give a demo with encap, he will win back the contract, and get bettr results

worked both side by side and you can judge my reply which is the best

geoff

[mark shannon]

Fascinating article Ken Thanks 

[richie]

I have just read about PROCHEMS PROCAP.  It sounds just what he is looking for.  He is at the moment using LM but PROCAP sounds great.  Could he use a Sebo Duo with Procap? Can you spray it down and use bonnet system? 

Richie.

[gwrightson]

Richie,
to be fair i cannot comment on the new procap product, i would imagine it is likely to be a good product
the machine that appears to be using the procap is a conta rotating , I did try this type of machine first
"a rotowash "when experimenting with encap, but found the results unsatisfatry , the correct amount of foam was not generated, it was uneven therfore rendering it under par. so an investment in the cimex triple brush was my only option, the resuls are far better . But at a push I dare say any form of aggitation machine would manage the job. but not reccomended.

geoff

[Mike Osbourne]

We talk about air quality, health issues etc for domestic and seem conveniently to ignore it for commercial. Discuss.

[Ken Wainwright]

Procap is one of the items I want to find more about at Carpex.

Earlier this year, I was part of a team encapping a large office facility in Essex. 12 year old cut pile polyprop, roll carpet never been previously cleaned particularly well. Over the course of 3 weekends I used my 230rpm Victor Rotary and my red Columbus Dixon rotary with the heater turned off(   ) and used brush, Turan pads and white polishing pads (the better), The C/D machine with white pad at about 300rpm was the best performer.

Being a REALLY REALLY trashed carpet with rinse/extract being banned from the offices we encapped on the saturday. Results were OK to good. Sunday am we would dry brush with the envirodri, vac then lightly but quickly encap again, then vac again towards the end of the day. Results were excellent. In the future, it should be a straight forward maintenance encap.

I also had my daughter running my Envirodri and this was very effective too on the initial clean, but slower, but really good on the second "maintenance" clean, and only a little slower than the rotary. We also used the Envirodri as a pile lifter with the initial vaccing.

This was my first work of any significance with encap. I was pleasantly surprised with the result.  The big advantage that I can see is that there are so many different types of machines that can be effectively used.

The post clean vac is vitally important. I would not be comfortable leaving this task to the in-house cleaners.

Safe and happy cleaning
Ken

[Ken Wainwright]

Mike

From my experiences, IAQ is more of an issue in the commercial office environment than residential.

Many office buildings these days tend to not have opening windows, so have air recycling air conditioning units to provide air change and movement.

However, on the job I mentioned above, the filter that the customers had ignored for far too long, was the filter on the floor. ie the carpet.  During all of the dry vaccing processes, we used filter masks for ourselves, aspecially with the dry brush pile lifting exercise.  The clients were forwarned that the lack of proper maintenance over the years would mean some dust. This was more than fortunate for us as my Holloway Pile Lifter only lasted for the first day before giving up

Safe and happy breathing
Ken

[Jason Hedges]

Hi Ken,

Been cleaning similar low cut profile polyprops with microsplitters and charly pads and achieved great results.

What benefit has encapping to these type of carpets? Better clean/slower resoiling etc?

All the best,
Jason.

[Ken Wainwright]

Honestly Jason, from my (limited) experience with encap, there little/is no obvious appearance difference with other generic LM systems. Except encap has a terrific initial "WOW " factor with the light reflecting encapsulant, giving a brighter appearance.

A significant advantage is the different types of equipment that can be used with encap, as previously mentioned.

I have cleaned with generic bonnet with traditional solutions and M/S for many, many years and always been able to achieve what is important ie client satisfaction.  Encap is another way to do this.

Safe and happy cleaning
Ken

[Jason Hedges]

Hi Ken,

Thanks for the reply.

I'm just mistified by the brighter results offered by encap, does the system contain extra brighteners more-so than traditional detergents?

I've been more than happy with traditional results using m/s & charleys and so have custys.

Is it worth the extra effort for the difference do you think?

Could be an interesting comparrison at the ccdo!

All the  best,
Jason.

[Ken Wainwright]

Jason

In my post, I talked about INITIAL brightening effect. This applies to all shampoo type formulations and many detergents too. This initial effect soon disappears.

It has nothing to do with OP's which has a longer lasting brightening effect, but which can then cause fibre damage, eg yellowing.

The low moisture system you have at present should provide you with all the cleaning power you need for an effctive maintenance service, plus a little extra too. But experience and knowledge of other processes is invaluable. For example, you may have a wool carpet to maintain by an LM system. The rotary with an M/S may not be suitable for reasons of pile distortion/damage. Encap with an Envirodri or other CRB machine could be your answer.

Safe and happy cleaning
Ken

[Jason Hedges]

Hi Ken,

Thanks for the advice, looks like my fast-track cleaning procedures could do with some fine tuning...... look forward to talking to you at the ccdo.

As always a pleasure my friend.

All the best,
Jason.

[Mike Osbourne]

I've looked into the latest generation of encap products and despite my normally cynical nature to 'new improved' products, there would seem to be added advantages over surface LM systems.

Assuming you are using a decent machine like the Cimex and the latest crystalising formulas (that won't go sticky) there is the possibility that over time an encap regime will remove a fair old bit of deep down dirt via maintenance vacuuming and without any wicking (or so the video said anyway).

Got a client who is happy for me to try different things so I'm going to see the effect over time of different systems.

Geoff, spoke to you know who about Bray. He said it's not much cop and was welcome to all of it. 

[*paul_moss]

Take a look at this and make your own mind up

http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=R0T8z-0VQCo&feature=related

 You Need to watch it till the end

[gwrightson]

Paul,
I dont think if this clip is showing the best machine for the job, The cimex is the ideal machine with its independant heads,
Ken , I do hope your visit to Carpex enlightens you, regarding the encap, To be honest Ken, I thought you would have known that the encap solutions are a differnt make up to other l/m systems, apart from the "wow factor"   they have the ability to keep cleaning with routine vaccuming.
 the process of agglomeration takes place, " i dont believe any other system gives you this " correct me if I am wrong. and of course its the encapsulation its self that makes the differnce with the polymer coating.
Since been introduced to Encap only last year, i have been more than happy with the results ,and likewise with the commercial customer.
Geoff

[Ken Wainwright]

Hi Geoff

I had a good chat at Prochem. Lots of questions and lots of answers. And the questions I had which couldn't be answered on the day were addressed by Peter Hargreaves. He rang me yesterday and clarified some of the issues I raised. A nice touch and great service from Prochem

My limited experiences to date with Encap have all been positive.  I've just been to measure a couple of apartment buildings. I may use Procaps on this.

Safe and happy cleaning
Ken