[Bizzie Lizzie]

Hi All,

I have taken someone on, on a 3 month trial basis (she has worked for 10 weeks until now), on Monday she hurt her back while working, she continued working all week (not complaining about her back pain). She went away for the weekend and had said she could work on Monday (normally works Tue-Fri, but I have been short staffed) to help me out.  Sunday evening she texted me to say her back was really bad so she wouldn't be working Monday afterall, & would go to the doctors.  She went to the doctors who has put her on the sick for a week, but wants to see her next Monday.

During the 10 weeks I have found her to be a bit loud, and doesn't speak to customers how she should (other staff have told me, & one customer has asked me not send her there), the other staff don't want to work with her as she drives too fast (first day in my company car she bumped into another car, got out gave him a mouthful - my 'other' stafff member who was with her said she was lighting a cigarette up while turning the corner).

My question is where do I stand?  Is she entitled to sick pay?  She earns under the tax threshold.

Comments very welcome - thanks
BL

[Bertie Boo]

...................ohhhhhhhhhhh if you were here i would SO want to hug you right now.

I havent a clue about the answer, sorry, but you have my sympathy 

Bertie

[dg-cleaning]

Do not quote me on this but this is what I believe to be the procedure. If your member of staff earns under threshold for tax and ni contributions then there is no entitlement but however the procedure is that they are self certified usually up to 3 days after which they must obtain a letter from doctor confirming that they are unfit for work.I would call the ACAS helpline to get some advice.I do believe that she would not be entitled to this payment and even if she was small businesses are able to claim this back off government.This is whatt acas told me when I en quired when I started taking on staff. They are  very helpful so look them up on google and give them a call ,they advise on employment law and also workers rights.

[Bizzie Lizzie]

Bertie-Thanks for the hug!

DG-Cleaning - Thank you for that info I will take your advice and ring ACAS for help! 

She has also been telling myself and staff she is thinking about leaving as she is stressed out with her teenager, and may go into fostering!!!! (Obviously as foster caring is easy with a problematic teenager to deal with too!)

[Bertie Boo]

Lizzie, as a totally off topic question, prior to the smoking ban were your staff permitted to smoke in the car?

Cheers

Bertie

[Bizzie Lizzie]

Smoking ban hadn't started then, it was a few weeks ago (No smoking signs are in my vehicles now!)

But she hadn't been told she couldn't smoke in my vehicles - also she doesn't know I know thats what she was doing!  She still blames the 'other' driver!

[Bertie Boo]

Lizzie, she can complain all she likes but if she went into the back of someone (was it the back?) then she ain't got a leg to stand on...

i hope it works out for you. What was she like at the interview stage?

Cheers

Bertie

[dg-cleaning]

If she is unhappy anyway and talking about leaving then maybe you should feed her the bullets.Ask her if she feels wok is interfering with her schedule and make it clear that should she wish to leave you won't make it difficult for her as you understand her dilemma etc.Make it sound  like your doing her a favour also.At end of day if she is unhappy and taking time off "ill" which I'm not suggesting is the case in this instance but it does happen then it would be much easier to give her option to walk rather than have her upset your rotas and planning of shifts by her calling in sick.

[cml]

My question is where do I stand?  Is she entitled to sick pay?  She earns under the tax threshold.


Sick pay ...................eh NO!!!  No Statutory Entitlement applies here.  But if you said you would pay her sick pay in her contract of employment then contractual sick pay it is.  But be careful.  If you've paid other staff more than the amount the law prescribes under statutory entilement you may find that will have to pay her.


I take it that you will not be extending your trial period then?  Be careful ..........you don't want anymore hassle especially if she starts talking about making a claim for personal injury.  You know the one on the TELLY that says have you had an accident at work?  Who? 'CLAIMS DIRECT'

[Bizzie Lizzie]

she didn't go into the back of anyone Bertie - just mirrors hit each other (only mine was broken - which she replaced very quickly off her own 'bad' back! excuse the pun! lol)

Interview stage - I quote - 'I am never ill' - 'never off' etc etc - but she would say that wouldn't she! References checked out fine!  Police check etc, seemed like the perfect employee!

I have never had any staff off ill before! Believe it or not! in 2 years! 

She has not been given contract of employment as yet as trial period has not yet finished therefore have said nothing about sick pay.

[Robert Parry]

Bizzie,

It is considered best practice to issue a contract of employment immediately, not after a trial period. This contract should make clear all aspects of your employee's employment, such as sick pay if any, notice of termination etc, etc.

Because you employ other members of staff, she would be covered by the same terms and conditions as your other staff already, regardless of your failure to issue her with a hard copy of her employment contract.

So if you pay other members of staff sick, regardless of earnings, then yes she would be entitled to sick pay, however if you pay other staff SSP, based on their earnings, and your new staff member does not meet the rules, then no she doesnt get sick pay.

Regarding her bad back, was the incident, sorry alleged incident logged in your accident book?

You need to find this out, quickly, like others have already said, it is very easy for employee's to claim for such things, you also need to ensure that your training records are in order, has she recieved any H & S training?  Manual Handling? etc, etc, again these points could make it very easy or difficult to fight any claim for compensation.

Regarding the car accident, all incidents should be investigated, and logged, regardless of the outcome of any car insurance claim, your other staff insist that she drives to fast, your own disciplinary procedures should have kicked into place in order for you to resolve this, if she did indeed take her eyes of the road to light a ciggie, and this can be proven, the words "without due care" spring to mind.

You also mentioned how loud she is, and how poorly she communicates with your customers, this again could cause major problems, if she gets to hear about this, she could lodge a claim for unfair or constructive dismissal against you.

Try DG's advice, but dont make it obvious, and inform all other staff that you will not tolerate "gossip" about other members of staff, because if this employee gets wind of any of this, you could be in all sorts of trouble.

Regards,

Rob

[Dust Knights]

She's not entitled to SSP.

You don't seem very happy with her so why not just sack her?

You don't have to wait til the end of the probationary period.

Chris

[Biscute]

If it was only a trial couldnt you put in a contract that you were able to get rid at any time that deems reasonable?

[Fox]

A trial period in the eyes of the law doesn't mean you can just get rid now days (unfortunately) it justs tells you and your employee not to expect permanent employment.  To get rid you will need to write to her and tell her that your company is thinking of terminating the employment setting a date for her to see you.  When she comes in you don't need to give her a reason just tell her that your company has decided it no longer requires her services as stated in the 'probationary period' and give her notice or pay in lieu of notice (should be a week in this case), also make sure she has all holiday pay accrued.  Do not do this while she is on the sick.

As previously said if you don't pay sick pay to others you don't to her, SSP kicks in after 12 wks of continuous NI cont, she can claim from the social if she is sick for any length of time and you should have SSP1 forms on hand to fill out if this is the case. 

Whether you get rid or not is your choice but I'd say you were better off without!

Fox