[Terry_Burrows]

;)I think they will invent a bit of paper thats says
this person has got common sense! thats about what nvqs are! but you cant  buy common sense,can you? :

[shinnyshinner]

Hi Martin
I agree it is all going a bit crazy is it anything to do with the European directive?
I have been checking out H&S issues and it does work out that if you are a one man band or don’t have more then 5 employees working for you, you don't need a health and safety policy but seems proceedings are being put in place to encourage small company's to have health and safety policy’s. I got a template from H&SE but do people realise that these are legal papers and need to be followed and filled out correctly or your company is at risk from prosecution if anything goes wrong or dont follow to while working. (I think I have it right) I told my mate who has passed his H&S if he was interested in drawing policy’s up for small business and he said no as if anything went wrong he could be the one open to prosecution.
But seems without it will it hold you back?
I think training is not a bad thing as long as it is going to improve your business in the long run but experience must count for something or does it now days?

Cheers Alan

[Andrew]

Just a few comments on NVQ's to answer questions and clarify.  

What i was trying to say but did not put over properly was  Does everyone start an NVQ at the same point and if not what does an NVQ actually count for? If i was to start a course at college say with computers for a recognised qualification no matter how much i knew i would still have to start from the beginning.

Steve Lowe


Everyone must start from the same point, which is an initial planning stage. Details to establish at the beginning are which NVQ units will the NVQ candidate work for, when and where NVQ assessment will be delivered, and the types of evidence of competence the candidate might want/be able to submit.

To use your example, a cleaning NVQ, like many computer (and other) courses these days have a framework of obligatory (core) and optional units.  Those who obtain the same qualification may not have followed an identical route to achieve.

With respect to a college course and a NVQ centre, I work in both environments.  To survive and obtain funding a college must put “bums on seats” on a consistent basis.  That means college course delivery is not necessarily based on what best suits your level of competence but on boosting their attendance figures. The result of that might be a “sucking eggs” process for some involved.  Of course vocational colleges are usually NVQ centres, but NVQ’ assessment centres in their purest form have nothing to do with a college.  They are tailored to the individual and operate in the work place.

I must say the nvq thingy is ok if you want to blow about a grand   … I think they will invent a bit of paper thats says this person has got common sense!   thats about what nvqs are

Terry Burrows

Somebody else in the Forum mentioned the figure of £1000 Terry!  I would very much appreciate the source of your information.

The Company I left (a very well known food factory), look at seem to regard NVQ's higher than City & Guilds/time served tradesmen…As I see it, if you were to do an NVQ for window cleaning it would take about 4 pages of checks and questions just to put your applicator in and out of your holster!!

If anyone does not know what nvq questionaires look like i'd be happy to scan them and forward them to you if you wanted to see what they involve just out of interest.

Mikey

NVQ's higher than City & Guilds/time served tradesmen

All cleaning NVQ’s, including the window cleaning NVQ, ARE  City & Guilds qualifications.  In cleaning they are one and the same. Those who deliver the cleaning NVQ’s must meet certain City & Guilds qualifications themselves to deliver them.

If anyone does not know what nvq questionaires look like i'd be happy to scan them and forward them

I would very much like to see the questionnaires you mention Mikey, to see if I could learn anything from them that would help me with my providing NVQ’s. Having said that, whilst a questionnaire might be used.  I personally have never seen anyone use them in the cleaning industry.  Questions are essential in the process to establish that the candidate has the required underpinning knowledge and understanding (i.e. they know why they are doing something the way they are doing it, and the importance of it) but questions are often answered without being asked through the course of normal conversation about the job. It becomes evident from either the way a task is undertaken, or the comments of the candidate, or both, that they know why they are doing some thing a particular way, and what the implications are. In cleaning most of us find residual questions are best dealt with in a conversational manner after assessment, and provide an opportunity for looking at case studies, legislation, simulations, tying up any "loose ends" and such like.  

Andrew from Edu-Clean UK

[Bryan_Dolby]

Mikey
You seem to have some experiance of NVQs
Would you do a window cleaning  NVQ at around £1000.00
or put the money to a different use say

Join federation                              £50.00
Yellow pages advert                    £120.00
Corporate clothing                       £100.00
Advertising logo vehicle               £110.00
buy some new work                    £500.00
Produce leaflets to distribute      £100.00

Costing of above might vary to differant areas
Anybody can reply

bryan

[Mikey Warner]

Andrew sorry mate, I got a bit wound up (shaking, nightmares about the factory came back!)   I did not mention that NVQ are city and guilds, sorry my mistake, but to me it's just how it is all gone about.

Let's take my X workplace as an example. They had nvq trainers to come in and train 5 people to become nvq assesors, these new assesors were assesed while assesing us! with me so far? as soon as i (as i was in the 1st batch to be assesed by the trainee assesors being assesed ,   :-/ ha ha), was passed the assesors were classed as competent in assesing!?? no matter how many muck up's they made along the way? so basically the company could make anyone pass an NVQ if it was needed if you know what I mean.

Another way to look at it is, to enter the factory you had to:
1. put on correct company work clothes.
2. Lock your civi gear in your locker.
3. make your way sensibley to the factory floor.
4. wash your hands with soap.
5. rinse your hands and wipe with paper towel.
(that is a shortened version believe me). Let's say that is one NVQ unit, you could get steps 1,2,3 & 4 right and get 5 wrong. but when you are "observed" again you can totally/blatantly muck up steps 1 to 4 and just get step 5 right and you've passed!! suss that!!

and i'm gonna go on a bit more,.... sorry!

Just to prove summit to the management at the factory i had a little wager with one of the managers. He and 4 other managers were put forward for an NVQ level III in supervisory management. as the company liked to help employees with college etc, i said i wanted to do the same course and that i could pass it even though i'm a low life floor person. it was agreed & the bet was on!!

For a year i went to college with all these big headed pratts, got the p*ss ripped evreyweek (but they got worse back believe me). They had no probs in getting their evidence and witness statements through doing business with outside firms etc, i got my witness statements and evidence by contacting another dept at the other end of the site, ha ha!! that still classes in NVQ terms as outside sources   at the end of the year, i handed my 2 folder portfolio in, of course they had 3 or 4 folders : : and the end result, i passed! they were very and he had to pay up!! and,.. the tutor said my portfolio was the cleverist he had ever marked, minimal and very well thought out
So basically i have no experience in man management, no experience in running a factory, but i have the qualification to become the factory general manager, all within "1 YEAR"!!

Thats why i personally think NVQ's stink!! to be polite,

Oh dear i've been running on again, sorry  

yes Andrew i'll scan some for you and forward them.

[Mikey Warner]

Brian sorry i did not reply to your post, the answer is yes!! i know what i'd rather spend my money on, "drink and women"!!  

[Bryan_Dolby]

Mikey

I  have a remedy for your nightmers
JOIN THE FEDERATION
Bryan

[Terry_Burrows]

;)Andrew the very big rumour has it,it costs up to and
could be more than £1000 for this NVQ paper! out of
interest : what is your hourly rate for Educlean : :-/ or daily one :

[shinnyshinner]

Hi all
Talking about training my local council asked if I had any training on using ladders
Out of interest who does training?
and how much?
and is it a 2-3 hr course and is it more a common sense course
Cheers
alan