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SHINING EXAMPLE

  • Posts: 121
HERE'S THE THING...
« on: January 24, 2007, 10:42:26 pm »
My round (mostly domestic) is too big for me to cover solely on my own. I use a couple of other window cleaners with much smaller rounds as casual labour on a self-employed basis.
I regularly turn work away, but on the other hand, I know that I could  double my round in just a few months.
I note from posts on this forum that some run 2 or more vans and clearly have full-time employees on their books.
So to you brave fellows I ask this:
What's the key to making it really work? What are the real costs? I can see so many pitfalls! For example, there's a guy that's based about 20 miles from me who runs at least 10 vans. I know for a fact that his window cleaners routinely steal work from him and he's turning over staff all the time. Yet, he was a millionaire years ago.
Not that that is my particular goal, but hey, if I make the choice to be a bonafide employer- with all it's certain hassles- I want a significant wage rise, know what I mean?
Would appreciate any crumbs from the bread of experience! 

mike richardson

  • Posts: 259
Re: HERE'S THE THING...
« Reply #1 on: January 24, 2007, 10:49:02 pm »
how much stress do you have in your life??? if the answer is none & you have a good life why do you need to be big?
i employed 8 lads 2 yrs ago just stress stress stress loads of dosh but hey thers more to life than money,i now employ 1 lad i know wot goes on every day who's paying wot,& my customers are happier, oh & the secretery (wife) is far happier without all that paper work,& i have my life back now,but if you want to be a millionaire go for it, ;)

cybersye

Re: HERE'S THE THING...
« Reply #2 on: January 24, 2007, 11:17:08 pm »
offer them a percentage rather than an hourly rate, is that possible?
I started off working for someone, got narked off  by what I could make them in a day and my hourly rate just did'nt cut it, so I did'nt work so fast, a percentage would give them an incentive to work faster, quote higher and maybe be a bit more honest, the effort they put in would benefit them and you.

seanmcshane

Re: HERE'S THE THING...
« Reply #3 on: January 25, 2007, 06:14:32 am »
when I worked in recruitment we worked on 20 - 30% profit margin and the key to the companys success was VOLUME.
For example we would quote a local authority who required residential social workers £15 per hour per social worker.
We would pay £9 per hour to the social worker.
Out of the £6 gross profit, we would have to deduct tax, NI and holiday pay ending up with about £4.50 net profit per hour per social worker.
We used to do 1000 hours a week from our office.
The £9 per hour is one of the best pay rates in the unqualified social worker field and consequently we attracted the best workers. The quality of their work reinforced our excellent market reputation and we were kept very busy even though the authority could go to our competitors and get staff for £11/£12 per hour, they were sent unreliable staff who were being paid £6-£7 per hour by their agency.

If you apply this logic to window cleaning, you would be looking at for example:

give 1 cleaner 15 houses per day at £10 per house over 20 days (mon-Fri) and that is £3000 turnover per 4 weekly cycle.
Contract them to carry out 12 annual cleans but on a 4 weekly turnaround.
This gives you and them 4 additional non work weeks a year to use as holidays or to cover catch up work.
EXAMPLE: (insert your own pay level) - Pay them £2000 per 4 weekly clean which is £24,000 per annum.
This is leaving you with £1000 per month gross profit for 1 employee.
There would be little danger of the employee jealously thinking "I can earn more on my own" at this no stress pay level. Remember LOW PROFIT MARGINS and VOLUME.

Not a lot but you should have in place a well paid employee who is on a good salary and has the freedom of working to a not particularly taxing schedule of 15 houses.

Now if you were to have 2 employees like this ,working to the same formula, you now have £2000 gross profit coming to you every 4 weeks.

Get these 2 employees in a van and combine both their schedules and deduct approx £300 for repayments on the van and your gross profit every 4 weeks is £1700

2 vans and 4 employees is £3,400 gross profit every 4 weeks.
4 vans and 8 employees is £6,800 gross profit every 4 weeks.

10 vans with 20 employees is £17,000 gross profit every 4 weeks.

Gross annual profit after 12 cleans have been carried out in the year by every van is: £204K. :o :o
Each employee has been paid and all van repayments have been met.

Deduct 50% of this to cover your own taxes and other expenses and you have a nice £102K profit every year. APPROXIMATELY. ;D ;D

I deducted the 50% as a reasonable guess, it may be more but it may also be less.
I think if you were able to develop easily manageable rounds in relatively compact areas for each van, your management of the vans schedule should be pretty straightforward and fuel costs would be kept as low as possible.

These figures may seem pretty simple to follow for some people and I know, understand and have experienced many times, MURPHYS LAW which says something is bound to go wrong. Of course it is. It is a challenge of running a successful business and if each challenge is met head on and dealt with in the most efficient manner available to you, the experience will only streamline your operation.

The wages should attract good staff. They are working in pairs in a wfp fitted out new van. They have good schedules of work that wont break their backs or spirits.
It should work.
It will probably keep you awake at night.
Time to promote one of them to be an "operations manager" and oversee the whole set up. ;D

chrismroberts

  • Posts: 807
Re: HERE'S THE THING...
« Reply #4 on: January 25, 2007, 09:56:33 am »
Hi Sean, thats an amazing business plan! Do you have people working for you? Has it worked out OK? I like the idea of getting someone else to be a manager.  Delegating authority, but not losing control, lol. I'm very new to this game, but my long, long term plan is something similiar.  Maybe not so big though, maybe just one or two vans, but I guess time will tell  :-\

Just one thing, it might be my dodgy maths, but 20 days at £150 a day is £3000, yeh.  But if you deduct £1200 from that for wages, wouldn't the gross profit be £1800?

Chris

seanmcshane

Re: HERE'S THE THING...
« Reply #5 on: January 25, 2007, 01:52:44 pm »
no wonder I`m skint! ;D (that was done very early this morning) ;)

modified it now and it still looks good.

I have the plan burning away at me but the problem I have found is finding good staff >:(
Until I have people I can trust to do the job the way I do it and expect it to be done EVERY time, I`ll do it myself but I am always on the lookout.

steveaqua

Re: HERE'S THE THING...
« Reply #6 on: January 25, 2007, 01:54:52 pm »
that is the main problem mate, getting people you can trust, i also have a plan when i get a lot more work hopefully it will work well ;)

Fast 1 *

  • Posts: 667
Re: HERE'S THE THING...
« Reply #7 on: January 25, 2007, 03:43:02 pm »
steve,dont you support the gunners?
wildstyles

Dean Aspects

  • Posts: 1786
Re: HERE'S THE THING...
« Reply #8 on: January 25, 2007, 04:19:03 pm »
getting good staff is the main problem
you can have a good business plan that looks good on paper all the figures look good but if you cant get some one good to do the job youre stumped
i have been doing this for the past year and every time they get up to speed to make it worthwhile they disapear :-[
on the motivation issue i have just started offering 50% of the first clean to the worker as an incentive the round expands the worker gets a little extra cash then everyone is happy
hopefully this will work for me

SHINING EXAMPLE

  • Posts: 121
Re: HERE'S THE THING...
« Reply #9 on: January 25, 2007, 05:11:35 pm »
Thanks guys! All good stuff. I'm out all evening today, but will digest the info. and reply tommorow- hopefully.
Don't worry, I'm not collecting. Knocked that nonsense on the head in first year of w.c.! 

Re: HERE'S THE THING...
« Reply #10 on: January 25, 2007, 08:11:17 pm »
Liked the clarity of the plan. But, were you saying that when the two employees combined to work together from doing 15 houses each, that they should now do 30 per day between them?

SHINING EXAMPLE

  • Posts: 121
Re: HERE'S THE THING...
« Reply #11 on: January 26, 2007, 08:13:36 pm »
Actually, some years ago, I did have 2 or 3 chaps helping me out a fair bit over about two years.  But this was before the definition of 'self-employed' was legally refined.
It worked great. I gave the guys a worksheet each. Upon completion, they received another if they so desired. Their wage was 60% (cyber) of whatever they did. With no collecting responsibilities, they were happy. I CERTAINLY WAS! Remember, they were using their own vehicles and work equipment.
But of course, the legal situation changed and I shied away from becoming an employer proper. Just as you say Mike, I didn't want the hassle.
Of course, I had masses of flippin' work; The lads were each happy to buy a share. Didn't charge them much because the way I saw it, I was just lucky to have such honest, hardworking fellas.
I realise that things may not be the same should I go down the employer route in the future.
Thanks again all, esp. Sean -a serious reply!- I agree, 'volume' is the key.

steve k

Re: HERE'S THE THING...
« Reply #12 on: January 27, 2007, 07:53:39 am »
curious,
yes...put 2 workers in the van each with their 15 houses to do. They now combine their schedules, work together and complete 30 houses per day.

dave0123

  • Posts: 3553
Re: HERE'S THE THING...
« Reply #13 on: January 29, 2007, 06:58:36 pm »
Thats a good idea sean, basicly you would be paying them £500 per week thats before tax? and NI ?? is that correct.


Also i spose you could do the same on a sort of "rent a round" basis and let them be self employed with there van and equipment etc.


Dave.
Dave.