[CLEANFREAK]

Hi Can anyone help me.  I need information with regard to T.U.P.E Laws, which departmental body would I need to get in touch with or is there a website I could visit and maybe download the information.  Am getting desperate.

I thankyou all in advance. ;

[*Chris Browne]

Try

www.businesslink.gov.uk or you could search this forum, there is plenty of stuff regarding tupe , what exactly do you need to know?

chris

[CLEANFREAK]

Hi Chris,  Think I have been awarded a large contract, it is already staffed so I will have to take the exisiting staff on.  T.U.P.E  law states I have to take them on under the same terms and conditions, but somebody told me that this is only in force for three months, cant get my head round it really, have you or someone you know been in the same predicament.  cheers mate !!!!!!!

[*Chris Browne]

I have many times, i will email you later,

chris



www.scsf.co.uk

[PremierPDS]

The tupee laws applies indefinately- once you take say a franchise on you are obliged by law to take the existing staff with the same terms and conditions of their previous employer. ie if the contract with the old employer doesn't require employees to work weekends then you would be breaking the law in trying to incorporate this term and condition in a new contract. This is a pain in the preverbial but there's nothing you can do. For further info phone ACAS and they'll advise you accordingly.

Nickie x

[ColinD]

So many opinions on T.U.P.E. In fact some aspects of the regulations are the subject of case law. (Don't go down that road.) Suggest: DTI.gov.uk. ACAS, or if you have H & R advice from one of the legal firms talk to them. One thing to remember. Get the information about the staff to be T.U.P.E.'d from the previous employer before you meet the new staff. Legally the previous employer HAS to supply basic information. The list is open to interpretation but certain elemnts are mandatory. dti.gov.uk should help, if not I have the basic requirements.

[Mr BSF]

The tupee laws applies indefinately- once you take say a franchise on you are obliged by law to take the existing staff with the same terms and conditions of their previous employer. ie if the contract with the old employer doesn't require employees to work weekends then you would be breaking the law in trying to incorporate this term and condition in a new contract. This is a pain in the preverbial but there's nothing you can do. For further info phone ACAS and they'll advise you accordingly.

Nickie x

From past dealings with ACAS and other helplines, they will only give the very basic information that is contained on the site, tupe is a very complex subject, in complicated takeovers, dispute of contracted hours, staff rates, holidays etc,  you would really need to pay for good advice from a lawyer that specialises in it.

regards

BSF

[Robert Parry]

Agree with BSF on this, you should also have a statement in your contract regarding T.U.P.E. as you can be severely stung financially!
Regards,
Rob

[Carolann]

I am a member of the FSB, small business help, they have their own legal team available 24 hours per day, and will also go to court to fight your battles for you, my annual premium is just £100, and this includes insurance for all your legal requirements. I have had many TUPE problems, it's such a grey area you need legal advice. If any of the existing staff have been working for the old company for over 1 yr, you will find it VERY difficult to get rid of them. Newer staff arent so much a problem.
I learned the hard way, I took on one member of staff that had been with the old company for 32 years! if I want to make her redundant, I have to pay 32 yrs worth of redundancy pay! she can't work properly through ill health, and I can't do a thing about it, I had to bring someone else in to do her job, but still pay her!
I took on a TUPE once and she had catalepsy....I wasnt told about this, they dont have to divulge this information, I had to hire another person to work alongside her so that the alarm could be raised if she had an attack, again, I had to pay 2 peoples wages for 1 persons job!
GET LEGAL ADVICE, JOIN THE FSB, YOU NEED HELP
Carolann

[Robert Parry]

Used to a member of the FSB a few years ago, whilst it's true they have this service as a member benefit, for something like this I would not rely on them.
Read Carolann's post, they failed to solve the problems, pay a real person, not someone on the phone, you pay them for a professional service/advice, they will fix the problem!

Remeber the FSB only pass on a small amount of your subscription fee to these "specialists", it will not cover the cost of real in depth info.

The views expressed in this mail are my own, and are not intended to offend or upset.

Regards,

Rob

[Happyeater]

Please be careful with TUPE as some people changing to a 'new' company are doing unscrupulous things to get cash off the poor contractor (ie me!)

You attend a pre- takeover meeting to assure the staff that their jobs are safe and terms and conditions will be honoured under the TUPE laws.

You receive a phone call from the above staff (or a couple) to say that they won't be coming over to you. With this news you don't ask their current contract cleaning company for their TUPE info.

You recruit and fill their positions only to receive a letter from your loving tribunal office to say that the cleaners have lodged a claim as you didn't keep them on and they prove it by showing that you didn't even bother to ask for their TUPE details from their old cleaning company.

It cost me £1500 

[Robert Parry]

Ouch!!!!!!!!!

Trust no-one!

Take legal advice, yes it's expensive, but at least you will protect your company, all sorts of people out there will try to line their pockets at your expense, regards,

Rob

[Happyeater]

I invested in a digital recorder and ensure that all meetings (TUPE, Disciplinary, reviews etc) are now minuted and recorded. Where possible having a witness too won't harm anything.

[ColinD]

TUPE!

A dark grey area. I was involved in a transfer of a contract earlier this year, some of the cleaning staff had been TUPE'd twice in five years! Which contract are they being transferred across on? Your guess was as good as the legal advice received from ACAS. As I said in a previous posting some of the area relating to TUPE are now the subject of case law!

To protect yourself insist that you receive all the available information from the previous contractor. (A legal Requirment) Have a meeting with the staff prior to take-over and get them to sign letters of transfer of contract, on the T & C's that they were previouysly employed on. You are then covered if the don't turn up for work and then try and take you to ACAS for breaking their T & C's.

You can change terms and conditions. As you can with staff who have not been TUPE'd across. It's just a case of giving reasonable notice and making sure that the alterations to T & C's are not detrimental. It is accepted that a contractor cannot alter TUPE'd T & C's for 13 weeks at least, and must give at least 13 week's notice of any fundamental alterations to contracts. But, and there is always a but, you must show that you have consulted and provided sufficient information and a period of consultation.

DTI.org.uk is a good resource.

One last thing. Keep records, paper trail everything, and where possible get signatures from the people involved. And be careful, it's a mine field.