[Neil Mc Anulty]

After attending a couple of courses at prochem I have always had the understanding that on carpets, first pre-spray the traffic lanes then to extract and rinse with a HWE.However I picked up from a previous topic that a pre-spray should be rinsed out of the carpet the the normal HWE.Can someone please clarify.

[Dynafoam]

Nr_neil,

Am I being dense ? Or would you like to re-phrase the question as you seem to be saying that you were taught one proceedure and have now hear that it is the proceedure.

John.

[Len Gribble]

John

Have you change your name to Len I thought I was the only one to pick up on the wording people use!

But I will be a bit kinder here he may be referring to the micro-splitting agents

Len

[Dynafoam]

Len,

I had no intention of be unkind or sarcastic in any way - I simply do not understand what he is asking but would like to help.

Niel,

I am sure that what you were taught at Prochem was basicaly correct. However there are variations to the general theme and these are introduced to suit individual circumstances.

No matter how long we have been doing this job, we all have things to learn and we were all novices at one time, so ask any question, no matter how simple.

John.

[Ian Gourlay]

John,

The way I was taught was to presray, then use another product to clean, and then apply and acid mist.


However a number of you advocate Pre Spaying with one product probably basic cleaner and just use a Hot Water Rince.  That is if you do not use Micro Spliter

I think this is what Neil is trying to say

Ive tried not to use brand names

However if you just used Ultimate Master as the Pre Spray would you apply a  stronger solution as the carpet is not receiving as much cleaning chemical as it would if applied in the Hot water tank.

Ie Aprox 2 litres compared with say 2o litres plus.

[Dynafoam]

Ian,

As far as I recall, not having use the product for some time, the recommendation is that the pre-spraying is via the wand, lifted above carpet, prior to the cleaning passes.

John.

[Ian Gourlay]

John thats right,

But I want clean water in my tank, so in my previous post I was wondering if you cold pre spray with a sprayer?

If so would you make a stonger solution.

I am still using  this product and Ashbys and Prochems as per instructions.
But just woderinghow good results I would get doing the above.

And I think this is what Nick is asking.

Until all used up I do not want to consider a switch to Microsplitters

[Dynafoam]

Ian,

I now understand what you are getting at !

In addition to a fairly extensive van-stock, I also have a storeroom stacked with products which I now use with much less regularity than in recent past.

Basically you are asking whether to Ultimate Master can be used simply as an enzyme pre-spray. how effective this would be compared to a product specifically formulated for that purpose can best be answered by the chemists responsible for its' formulation, but I suspect that, regardless of its' dilution rate, it would not perform as well. most products perform best when used 'as directed'.

In your final sentence you referred to a "switch to micro-splitters". I know of at least one distributor of such products who has the integrity to agree that, regardless of how good they may be, they are not the best solution in every case - I cannot forsee that 'conventional' chemicals will be totally replaced by these newcommers.

My own approach is to use micro-splitters where I consider their use appropriate, and accept that the money invested in other stock is going come off the shelf slower that expected at time of purchase.

Hopefully this may also have helped Neal.

John.

[Neil Mc Anulty]

Sorry I really did nt make myself clear.When I said rinse out with a HWE I meant by applying pre-spray with Asprayer then agitate and then rinse with a detergent in the HWE and not an acidic rinse to neutralise the pre-spray. Hope this explains it a wee bit better :-/

[Dynafoam]

Neil,

There are differing oppinions on this.

Some would hold that detergent residue in a carpet is not a problem, whilst others take the 'minimum residue ' approach the be the only way to go.

Where I believe members of both camps concurr is that the greater the alkalinity of other cleaning agents, the greater the necessity of an acid rinse. The requirements of the carpet fibre will also affect this.

To be more specific to your question, without getting into the above debate- a high-alkali pre-spray will be diluted and largly removed by the extraction rinse. On the other hand that pre-spray may cause some damage to the carpet prior to rinsing.

Whether the final condition of  the carpet is acidic/alkaline/neutral will depend on the product in your solution tank and the effectiveness of your cleaning. Some extraction detergents are self-neutralising.

It is for you to decide what your aim is to be with regard to the final condition of the carpet. I f I tell you that you should be aiming for a neutral carpet, with no cleaning residue, someone else will say "Poppycock, these products are designed to have some residue - does no harm"

What is beyond question is that the lack of detergent residue, and a carpet that is neutral pH will not cause any undesirable results.

John.

[Robert_O]

Hi all

Not really wanting to spark off a big issue over this , but by prespray followed by fresh water rinse uses cleaning agent far more economically.

Using a fresh water rinse can also be a good sales aid when talking through the cleaning process with the client.

Others may disagree by saying I am not following the manufacturers recommendations by putting it through the tank, but all I am saying is this works for me and I am comfortable with this.

I am not saying anyone is write or wrong, but as I have mentioned before you listen to the advice out there, experiment a little and make up your own mind.

Regards

Robert

[Dynafoam]

Robert,

I not only totally agree but could, and have, gone further.

Under the circumstances of the tread, I was for once trying to  post a 'neutral' answer rather than spark off a debate which might further confuse Neil at this stage.

John.

[Derek]

Hi

Just to add a few words...

There is an 'accepted' neutral pH within the Industry of somewhere between 8.5 and 5.5 although in truth this is NOT neutral

BSI tests are carried out within these areas so any chemicals used outside will take you into unknown territory and the potential risks that go with it.
In some cases with upholstery fabrics returning the fabric to 'true neutral' (7) is critical.

Robert was recently taken to task for using the comparison with washing ones hair and not rinsing, his the accuser is wrong...
the last cycle on the household washing machine is the rinse cycle... both of the above comparisons make absolute sense to Mrs Customer.

One of the world's major chemical suppliers for cleaning chemicals domestic/commercial has a promotional video on which the final comment goes something like this...."a cleaning procedure is incomplete until the rinsing action has taken place"

I concur

Derek

Derek

[Ken Wainwright]

I'm a great believer and advocate of fresh water rinsing, but a word of caution. Many pre-sprays are not free rinsing so require an additive to the rinse to enhance it's removal. This is usually a low concentration  detergent or acidic rinse. If you are unsure as to whether your pre-spray is free rinsing or not, consult the manufacturer for advice.

Safe and happy cleaning:)
Ken