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kinder clean

  • Posts: 603
I have to quote for a very large (for me anyway) office area.

Have been to look today, measurements approx as follows:

2 open plan office spaces measuring 20mtr x 7 mtr each - total 280sq/mtr

1 Open plan office space measuring 10mtr x 7 mtr - total 70sq/mtr

1 open pan office space measuring 8mtr x 7 mtr - total 56sq/mtr

1 dining room 7mtr x 7mtr - total 49sq/mtr

8 small office rooms each measuring 3mtr x 3mtr - total 72sq/mtr

Total overall - approx 527 sq/mtr

The area is all under one roof but spread over 2 floors, they don't want any of the furniture moving and the carpet is low profile carpet tile, checked the backing and it looked like bitchemen backing. It will have to be cleaned out of office hours so 5:30pm onwards and there was talk of doing it in 2 evening visits, each 5:30 - 9:30.

Can bitchemen be be HWE? 

I think I'd be in with a better chance by quoting for time taken rather than per/sq mtr, however with no experience of such large areas  I'm struggling to get my head around what time it might take to HWE an area this size, I thought maybe 8 hours? any advice appreciated.

Cheers Paul



Re: Large office area carpet tiles, bitcheman backing - is HWE - OK?
« Reply #1 on: October 27, 2008, 04:22:44 pm »
Timing difficult to call as everyone works to different speeds and standards  :-\

Suggest LM clean on tiles .......... HWE is possible but VERY hard work and fraught with disaster stories  :o

Bitumen backed tiles are airtight so airflow will not help, they are stuck down so water can lift on edges or cause bubles (as can over use of solvents)  ::)

I use Charly Pads and M Power to great effect on this type of flooring (Dry Fusion and Texatherm also usable sytems for this kind of flooring)

brian willis

  • Posts: 126
Re: Large office area carpet tiles, bitcheman backing - is HWE - OK?
« Reply #2 on: October 27, 2008, 04:33:14 pm »
who sells charly pads chris.

bri

Re: Large office area carpet tiles, bitcheman backing - is HWE - OK?
« Reply #3 on: October 27, 2008, 04:41:59 pm »
Solutions UK

garry22

Re: Large office area carpet tiles, bitcheman backing - is HWE - OK?
« Reply #4 on: October 27, 2008, 04:46:37 pm »
Paul,

As Chris says, avoid HWE if at all possible.

I've got Dry Fusion which brings these up like new. If you have not, you can get a good result with a low / standard speed rotary and pads.... without all the aggro.

garry

gwrightson

  • Posts: 3617
Re: Large office area carpet tiles, bitcheman backing - is HWE - OK?
« Reply #5 on: October 27, 2008, 06:08:13 pm »
Paul,
After last weeks experience I would have thought you would know what to use, and it certainly wont take you 2 nights  suggested price if no furniture to be moved    .

£1.00 per sq m  to £ 1.50 sq mt   depending  on what you think your chances are , are they getting other quotes etc. 
and before I get slated for such a low price of £1. 50 per m , I am not refering to h/w/e cleaning.

geoff
who ever said dont knock before u try ,i never tried dog crap but i know i wouldnt like  haha

colin thomas

  • Posts: 813
Re: Large office area carpet tiles, bitcheman backing - is HWE - OK?
« Reply #6 on: October 27, 2008, 06:44:27 pm »
chris/garry, with the greatest respect i couldn't tell you how many thousands sq mtrs of office tiles i have cleaned with hwe and never a problem, i agree you don't want to overwet them and usually be carefull not to use solvents for spotting but you both make it sound like a horror story waiting to happen if you use hwe, not so, but i do think that paul should go on a course or out with a preficient cleaner to learn more about carpets/tiles,

colin
colin thomas

kinder clean

  • Posts: 603
Re: Large office area carpet tiles, bitcheman backing - is HWE - OK?
« Reply #7 on: October 27, 2008, 07:54:50 pm »
Hi Geoff

No doubt the cimex system would be ideal, however I aint got one yet!  :D I will quote this job and take it from there, if I get the job, it can go towards the cimex.  ;)

Paul

Jim_77

Re: Large office area carpet tiles, bitcheman backing - is HWE - OK?
« Reply #8 on: October 27, 2008, 09:34:08 pm »
Obviously if you're equipped to do it with a rotary and it'll produce a respectable job then that's the best course of action.  But if the soil level is demanding of HWE rather than a bonnet system you've got to do it really!

I wouldn't be afraid of using HWE but it needs to be done properly.  Yes airflow is an issue but it isn't insurmountable.  Free-rinsing non-detergent products are best because they require less rinsing to extract the soil.

You're also at a serious disadvantage if you don't use a glide on your wand, as this helps you to maintain air flow.  Since using a glide I really don't know how i managed without one on low profile!

Allow to partially dry after extracting, lightly re-spray with non-detergent product and bonnet over.  Then get loads of air over it to dry it as quickly as you can.  The bonnet coupled with fast drying should avoid wicking.

You use a portable setup if i remember right?  If you do HWE this you'll have to be going at a fair old whack to do it in 2 sessions of 4 hours each!  You've got to clean 66 metres an hour, and that doesn't take into account setting up twice and packing away twice!  I'd definitely be allowing more time than that for extraction with a portable, but you might have enough time with a bonnet system, depending on how quickly you can work.

Offices can be a bit fiddly and time-consuming, going round desks etc... incidentally have you measured the comlpete area of the room or just calculated the actual amount of carpet you'd be cleaning?  What a lot of people do is to quote for the complete floor space and not move desks and cabinets, so you're not actually cleaning all of those metres you're quoting for.

Paul I'd consider your pricing very carefully!  Maybe subbing in another cleaner might be an option if you ned to get it done quick.  Of course if they don't mind how long it takes you then bit-by-bit in the evenings shouldn't be a problem.  But remember you'll be having to set up and pack away each time, which when you consider you'll be carting things up and down stairs too can take up a fair amount of time and gets a bit knackering!

Shaun_Ashmore

  • Posts: 11382
Re: Large office area carpet tiles, bitcheman backing - is HWE - OK?
« Reply #9 on: October 27, 2008, 09:58:45 pm »
Paul roughly where is the job and when do thay want it doing? I'll give you a hand if you want?

Shaun

Re: Large office area carpet tiles, bitcheman backing - is HWE - OK?
« Reply #10 on: October 27, 2008, 10:32:00 pm »
Colin,
Not suggesting that tiles cannot be cleaned any other way than LM ............. they can be cleaned but not with as little water or effort.
Only had my low moisture system for 3 years now, so i used HWE before!! Always dreaded the work and the results prior to LM....... now i know the customer WILL be happy, the carpet tiles will not lift, the soil will not wick up, the computers will not go down, the desks and chairs will not leave rust marks and the job will not take so long  ;D

The question was "is HWE - OK?" ............ the answer is PROBABLY ........... but why take the chance  ;)

Re: Large office area carpet tiles, bitcheman backing - is HWE - OK?
« Reply #11 on: October 27, 2008, 10:44:20 pm »
Chris,

Not sure Solutions do CPs now isn't it Alltec selling them at an even steeper price?

stuart_clark

  • Posts: 1879
Re: Large office area carpet tiles, bitcheman backing - is HWE - OK?
« Reply #12 on: October 27, 2008, 10:45:45 pm »
I cleaned 3600 square metres of nylon low profile last week with the lm system, it took me twenty hours in total, mind you there was some heavy staining otherwise I might have done it a bit quicker ! I used hot M Power mixed at 80 to 1 and also the same dilution rate in the wringer buckets. I used the Solutions Do Nut type Micro Fibre Bonnets ! Got exellent results
I also used there new Scrubber bonnets for better agitation
Regards Stu Clark

P S  Solutions no longer sell Charlie pads

Re: Large office area carpet tiles, bitcheman backing - is HWE - OK?
« Reply #13 on: October 27, 2008, 10:49:16 pm »
Apologies, Solutions no longer sell Charly pads, that is where i got mine ages ago.
Alltec is new outlet but did try new 'doughnut' pads and the scrubbing pad at weekend .............. very impressed but just waiting for feedback from client and results on washing of pads  ::)

stuart_clark

  • Posts: 1879
Re: Large office area carpet tiles, bitcheman backing - is HWE - OK?
« Reply #14 on: October 27, 2008, 10:54:51 pm »
I purchased 6 Do Nut Pads and after use I just put them on a rinse cycle in the washing machine ! they came up good as new

markpowell

  • Posts: 2279
Re: Large office area carpet tiles, bitcheman backing - is HWE - OK?
« Reply #15 on: October 27, 2008, 11:22:50 pm »
Paul,
Going back to the original question "Is HWE ok to use on Bitumen backed tiles"
Yes is the answer.
Mark

JandS

  • Posts: 4250
Re: Large office area carpet tiles, bitcheman backing - is HWE - OK?
« Reply #16 on: November 04, 2008, 09:35:02 am »
 ???
What's the lm system?

John
Impossible done straight away, miracles can take a little longer.

Joe H

Re: Large office area carpet tiles, bitcheman backing - is HWE - OK?
« Reply #17 on: November 04, 2008, 01:46:02 pm »
lm = low moisture.

Usually uses rotary machines like Dry Fusion or just a normal low speed rotary with pads for carpets.

Carpets can be dry in 30-60 minutes.

Using the sytsem after HWE can also aid faster drying carpets.

ultra low moisture would include Host and Envirodri machines and "sponges"

JandS

  • Posts: 4250
Re: Large office area carpet tiles, bitcheman backing - is HWE - OK?
« Reply #18 on: November 04, 2008, 02:00:34 pm »
Cheers for that Joe
Impossible done straight away, miracles can take a little longer.