[martin hulstone]

Is it worth buying a water softener with the cost/hassle?
I currently produce about 5000 litres a week and my membrane lasts around a year as the water is so hard with a tap tds of around 320 (Poole, Dorest), with the cost of resin am i better to just change the membrane once a year when it reaches say 30 (starts at 7 new) or get a water softener?
Any advise greatly appreciated.

[H2GoKent]

Not sure why your membrane would fail after a year, my water is around 420-450 as I live in East Kent, very chalky here, and I usually get at least two or three years out of mine.
Do you flush it regularly that will make a big difference? It's worth knowing what your mains pressure is mine is only 45psi so I have a booster pump and that helps my RO produce more water and live a bit longer too. A water softener will not purify your water. Might be worth phoning one of the resin manufacturers they really know their stuff.

[Spruce]

I would say its best to seek answers from local suppliers of water softeners.

I have never understood why they are called water softeners as they don't soften the water at all. The tds before and after a water softener is the same.

What it does do is remove the calcium and magnesium ions that make the water hard and replace them with sodium ions. A better description of this should be a water conditioner.

Sodium ions are much kinder to the r/o membranes than calcium and magnesium. Because of this, the r/o membranes will last longer.

But you need to balance the cost of the softener and salt with the cost of replacement membranes.

Your water softener must be able to cope with processing all the water your r/o needs; total waste plus total pure.

Auto regeneration water softeners are expensive as they need to be large as wfp uses a lot of water. With a 3 to 1 ratio of waste to pure, producing 500 liters of pure will use 2000 liters of water, so the softener needs to accommodate that. If you are considering a water softener then it would make sense to me to put the whole house onto it. 

Non salt water softeners haven't got many good reviews from the American market.

-

[JSMC]

Tap water round here im sure is 28 ppm lol

[martin hulstone]

Thanks Spruce,
Very informative. I flush my membrane reguarly although some people say it makes no odds and i also use a clarke 240 pump.
I have gone through a membrane a year now for last 4 years replacing when tds reaches around 40 but i suspect paying 230 quid for a new ro is actually cheaper than salt costs.
Will get local advise.
Thank you

[Spruce]

Thanks Spruce,
Very informative. I flush my membrane reguarly although some people say it makes no odds and i also use a clarke 240 pump.
I have gone through a membrane a year now for last 4 years replacing when tds reaches around 40 but i suspect paying 230 quid for a new ro is actually cheaper than salt costs.
Will get local advise.
Thank you

Chlorine also destroys membranes. There could be an issue on the prefilter side or you need to change the carbon filter more regularily.
We have 20" prefilters and change c/b filter approx every 3 months when it has processed 79,000 liters on the water meter using Fiberdyne filters.

How long do other window cleaners membranes last in your area? If theirs are lasting longer then that raises a few issues, ie high chlorine content in water or prefilter issue.

[Perfect Windows]

Is it worth buying a water softener with the cost/hassle?
I currently produce about 5000 litres a week and my membrane lasts around a year as the water is so hard with a tap tds of around 320 (Poole, Dorest), with the cost of resin am i better to just change the membrane once a year when it reaches say 30 (starts at 7 new) or get a water softener?
Any advise greatly appreciated.

Martin, our input TDS is pretty much the same as yours and my membrane's now four years old and good as new (very similar output to yours when new).  It's an Axeon HF4 (if I remember correctly) and we have a Clarke 240 also.  I flush it a couple of times a year at most.

I'll bet a pound to a penny that chlorine's getting through to your membrane.

IMO, by far the best solution is a DI vessel 2/3 full (no more) of acid-washed charcoal (about £90, gives three or four fills).  All available from GAPS water.  We get about ten months from a fill in a 30" vessel.  Though we may well be being pessimistic on that, it's cheaper than leaving it too long.  We have a particle filter after the charcoal but it stays pretty much spotless.  When you fill the charcoal, attach to a tap and flush it for a minute or two to let out any charcoal dust.

Vin

[Spruce]

Is it worth buying a water softener with the cost/hassle?
I currently produce about 5000 litres a week and my membrane lasts around a year as the water is so hard with a tap tds of around 320 (Poole, Dorest), with the cost of resin am i better to just change the membrane once a year when it reaches say 30 (starts at 7 new) or get a water softener?
Any advise greatly appreciated.

Martin, our input TDS is pretty much the same as yours and my membrane's now four years old and good as new (very similar output to yours when new).  It's an Axeon HF4 (if I remember correctly) and we have a Clarke 240 also.  I flush it a couple of times a year at most.

I'll bet a pound to a penny that chlorine's getting through to your membrane.

IMO, by far the best solution is a DI vessel 2/3 full (no more) of acid-washed charcoal (about £90, gives three or four fills).  All available from GAPS water.  We get about ten months from a fill in a 30" vessel.  Though we may well be being pessimistic on that, it's cheaper than leaving it too long.  We have a particle filter after the charcoal but it stays pretty much spotless.  When you fill the charcoal, attach to a tap and flush it for a minute or two to let out any charcoal dust.

Vin

My gut feeling is also saying its chlorine related. Doug did mention that the amount of chlorine can change depending on where you are on the water main. He says the closer you are to the water purification plant the higher the concentration of chlorine in the tap water.

Its good to hear that acid washer charcoal prefilter is still working for you Vin.

If memory serves me you also went to get lengths to properly clean out and sterilise (with beach) the 4040 housing as you felt there was also fungal contamination coming from that.
I took that on board and will do that when I change my r/o membrane next time - whenever that is. Its 3 & 1/2 years old and still performing as it did when new.
At the moment its 101ppm in and flickers between 1 & 2 out before di. HF5 membrane and no booster with 50 psi water pressure.  I'm happy with that.

I'm not the most conscientious flusher either.

-

[Perfect Windows]

Ref flushing, June at Gaps said that not flushing won't affect the output TDS, it'd just reduce the pure output flow.  I'm very much in the "flush when I remember and can be bothered" camp.

The only time you need to bleach is if you've had a problem and the inside of the RO housing feels slimy.  I'd give it a miss if not: it takes a long time plus you're introducing chlorine into the system.

Vin

[martin hulstone]

Thank you for your replies, it really does help.
I will also speak to julie who is a wealth of knowledge.