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Tom White

Re: Pump/controller problem..?
« Reply #20 on: October 22, 2014, 03:01:55 pm »

Yes pump controls are popular as the benefits of managing the pump are well accepted. We are but one manufacturer, who spend large amounts of time listening to what the market wants and answering that need.


Do you cater for guys who just want a flow controller and nothing else?  No bells or whistles?

And where do you get your information of 'what the market wants' from?  I know a lot of window cleaners and the impression I get is they just want something cheap, robust and simple that controls their flow, which is why many don't bother with flow controllers at all; they use taps.


Ian Sheppard

  • Posts: 1225
Re: Pump/controller problem..?
« Reply #21 on: October 22, 2014, 03:56:42 pm »

Yes pump controls are popular as the benefits of managing the pump are well accepted. We are but one manufacturer, who spend large amounts of time listening to what the market wants and answering that need.


Do you cater for guys who just want a flow controller and nothing else?  No bells or whistles?

And where do you get your information of 'what the market wants' from?  I know a lot of window cleaners and the impression I get is they just want something cheap, robust and simple that controls their flow, which is why many don't bother with flow controllers at all; they use taps.

Hi Tosh

Information on what people are looking for comes from the Forums, one to one discussions with  window cleaners. Distributors and  system makers. Feedback is coming form the people who use and build systems both in the UK/EU and further afield.

We have not produced a basic voltage regulator since the early V1 nine odd years ago. It is unlikely we would go back to producing a controller like it because in it is simply no where as reliable and robust as the current V11.
It would require a new PCB layout and design and by the time we take into account all the associated costs and over heads of building a basic voltage regulator it would not be much cheaper than the V11 for a not very good or efficient unit.




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prestige cleaners

  • Posts: 1038
Re: Pump/controller problem..?
« Reply #22 on: October 22, 2014, 07:04:45 pm »
update - just bought a spare battery for my new diy trolley, and tried it before changing the cables, and its working fine, i must have knackered the battery? or may need topping up?

Tom White

Re: Pump/controller problem..?
« Reply #23 on: October 22, 2014, 07:07:30 pm »
update - just bought a spare battery for my new diy trolley, and tried it before changing the cables, and its working fine, i must have knackered the battery? or may need topping up?

How old was the old battery?

Ian Sheppard

  • Posts: 1225
Re: Pump/controller problem..?
« Reply #24 on: October 22, 2014, 07:53:21 pm »
It is worth mentioning that any electronic device used to control a pump is only acting a s bridge between the battery and the control. The controller its self is using very small amounts of energy. The pump is taking somewhere around 99% of current drawn.

A well maintained battery used as the manufacturer intended can give a very long life, A less well maintained battery may have a much shorter life due the the discharge/recharge cycle and how often the battery is drained lower than the manufacturer recommends

A car's battery is designed to provide a very large amount of current for a short period of time. This surge of current is needed to turn the engine over during starting. Once the engine starts, the alternator provides all the power that the car needs and slowly recharges the battery. So a car battery may go through its entire life without ever being drained more than 20 percent of its total capacity. Used in this way, a car battery can last a number of years. To achieve a large amount of current, a car battery uses thin plates in order to increase its surface area.

A deep cycle battery is designed to provide a steady amount of current over a long period of time. A deep cycle battery can provide a surge when needed, but nothing like the surge that a car battery can produce. A deep cycle battery is also designed to be deeply discharged over and over again (something that would ruin a car battery very quickly). To accomplish this, a deep cycle battery uses thicker plates.

A car battery typically has two ratings:

CCA (Cold Cranking Amps) - The number of amps that the battery can produce at (0 degrees C) for 30 seconds.

RC (Reserve Capacity) - The number of minutes that the battery can deliver 25 amps whilst keeping its voltage above 10.5 volts

Typically, a deep cycle battery will have two or three times the RC of a car battery, but will deliver one-half or three-quarters the CCAs. In addition, a deep cycle battery can withstand several hundred total discharge/recharge cycles, while a car battery is not designed to be totally discharged.

what happens as a battery depletes.
When under load (connected to the pump)  the Sulphur reacts with the Lead in the cell and generates electrical current (amps). During this reaction both the positive and negative plates in the battery become coated with Lead Sulphate. As the Current (stored energy) is drawn form the battery the plates become more and more coated. As the process continues the voltage is also decreasing.

Most manufacturers would recommend a battery should not be discharged below 10.5V as the build up of Lead sulphate will at this point cover most of the cell.

This lead sulphate is a soft material and can be separated back into Lead and Sulphuric acid when the battery is recharged.

However excessive depletion of the battery can cause the lead sulphate to harden into crystals on the lead plates. This will mean the cell is less able to hold a charge and will not last as long.
Ultimately over its life this is also why your battery will become less able to hold a charge.

Batteries also discharge via Parasitic discharge when not under load.

All batteries, regardless of their chemistry, will self-discharge. The rate of self-discharge for lead acid batteries depends on the storage or operating temperature. At a temperature of 26 degree C a lead acid battery will self-discharge at a rate of approximately 4% a week. A battery with a 125-amp hour rating would self-discharge at a rate of approximately five amps per week. Keeping this in mind if a 125 AH battery is stored for four months (16 weeks) over winter without being charged, it will loose 80 amps of its 125-amp capacity. It will also have severe sulphation, which causes additional loss of capacity. Keep your batteries charged while not in use!





 
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prestige cleaners

  • Posts: 1038
Re: Pump/controller problem..?
« Reply #25 on: October 22, 2014, 08:49:04 pm »
its not old tosh, bought it this year. its a small car battery about 55amps, i dont think its meant for 5hr cleaning days, even though it gets charged every night.

anyone got any links to good batterys?


rosskesava

  • Posts: 17015
Re: Pump/controller problem..?
« Reply #26 on: October 22, 2014, 08:58:20 pm »
Ian

Interesting stuff about batteries.

This is just a curiosity question. When I last bought a battery it was labelled 'ready to use'. I still stuck the ctek charger on it anyway but do sellers of batteries keep them charged up all the time?

Thanks.
Just chant..... Hare Krsna, Hare Krsna, Krsna Krsna, Hare Hare, Hare Rama, Hare Rama, Rama Rama, Hare Hare. It's beats chanting Tory Tory or Labour Labour.

Ian Sheppard

  • Posts: 1225
Re: Pump/controller problem..?
« Reply #27 on: October 22, 2014, 09:02:21 pm »
Ian

Interesting stuff about batteries.

This is just a curiosity question. When I last bought a battery it was labelled 'ready to use'. I still stuck the ctek charger on it anyway but do sellers of batteries keep them charged up all the time?

Thanks.
[/quote
Hi Rosskesava
Good question and to be honest i dont know. I reckon popping it straight on the ctek is a very good idea
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G.W.C

  • Posts: 185
Re: Pump/controller problem..?
« Reply #28 on: October 22, 2014, 09:12:06 pm »
Other controllers lack the features of a more sophisticated controller. They :

- Do not stop and warn when the battery voltage is too low and further use will permanently damage your battery and cause added expense
- Do not give battery voltage at the flick of a button
- Do not control as efficiently as a our controller, which makes your battery power go further! (They lose energy mostly through heat)
- Do not work at the most efficient frequency for the pump (meaning the pump loses yet more energy through heat and noise)
- Cannot provide added benefits and features, like TDS, hot water system control, radio control, tank filling and water production control

I only want something robust that controls my flow that doesn't mess me about.  I suspect that's what most window cleaners want; hence the £5 one from e-bay does it for me.
Iv had nothing but problems with the analouge controllers i bought  from gardiners,was close to smasing it to bits today with stress,constantly playing up all
 day. Im gona try one of these cheap ones and buy a few spares. Cant be assed with another day like today

Tom White

Re: Pump/controller problem..?
« Reply #29 on: October 22, 2014, 09:17:00 pm »
Iv had nothing but problems with the analouge controllers i bought  from gardiners,was close to smasing it to bits today with stress,constantly playing up all
 day. Im gona try one of these cheap ones and buy a few spares. Cant be assed with another day like today

Some geezer is selling them on ebay for between 26 and 30 quid already made up.

Or you can just buy one for a fiver and stick it in some box.

Honestly, ours work a treat; we never have any problems at all with it.  No calibration, no not working because the battery is older than six months old; no fuss.

I highly recommend.

Ian Sheppard

  • Posts: 1225
Re: Pump/controller problem..?
« Reply #30 on: October 22, 2014, 09:21:40 pm »
Other controllers lack the features of a more sophisticated controller. They :

- Do not stop and warn when the battery voltage is too low and further use will permanently damage your battery and cause added expense
- Do not give battery voltage at the flick of a button
- Do not control as efficiently as a our controller, which makes your battery power go further! (They lose energy mostly through heat)
- Do not work at the most efficient frequency for the pump (meaning the pump loses yet more energy through heat and noise)
- Cannot provide added benefits and features, like TDS, hot water system control, radio control, tank filling and water production control

I only want something robust that controls my flow that doesn't mess me about.  I suspect that's what most window cleaners want; hence the £5 one from e-bay does it for me.
Iv had nothing but problems with the analouge controllers i bought  from gardiners,was close to smasing it to bits today with stress,constantly playing up all
 day. Im gona try one of these cheap ones and buy a few spares. Cant be assed with another day like today

Can i ask what issues are you experincing .
V16 Is Here
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1AhbZirSlpI&t=8s
Polarity Protect technology

rosskesava

  • Posts: 17015
Re: Pump/controller problem..?
« Reply #31 on: October 23, 2014, 12:17:01 am »
Iv had nothing but problems with the analouge controllers i bought  from gardiners,was close to smasing it to bits today with stress,constantly playing up all
 day. Im gona try one of these cheap ones and buy a few spares. Cant be assed with another day like today

Some geezer is selling them on ebay for between 26 and 30 quid already made up.

Or you can just buy one for a fiver and stick it in some box.

Honestly, ours work a treat; we never have any problems at all with it.  No calibration, no not working because the battery is older than six months old; no fuss.

I highly recommend.

I added a £1.99 3 way switch to mine in case it does pack up. Position 1, via the voltage regulator, position 2, off, position 3, by pass the voltage regulator.

The water proof box mine is in cost a few quid from ebay including postage. The cable I use is 240V mains lighting cable. All wiring is soldered and wrapped up in waterproof heat shrink stuff.

5 years and it's worked every time.
Just chant..... Hare Krsna, Hare Krsna, Krsna Krsna, Hare Hare, Hare Rama, Hare Rama, Rama Rama, Hare Hare. It's beats chanting Tory Tory or Labour Labour.